Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Emulsion peeling off with splicing tape

my profile | my password | search | faq & rules | forum home

»	Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE » Operations » Film Handlers' Forum » Emulsion peeling off with splicing tape - new issue?

Author

Topic: Emulsion peeling off with splicing tape - new issue?

Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99

posted 05-27-2010 09:05 AM

I have had this happen with two recent color prints; when peeling splicing tape off of the film (good Neumade tape, not cheap stuff), the emulsion peels with the tape, destroying one or two frames of the print.

I have only ever seen this happen before with some B&W prints made in the early 1980s (which was not a good period for B&W lab work).

Has anyone else seen this happen lately? Is this a new problem with lab work or print stocks?

| IP: Logged

Bill Enos
Film God

Posts: 2081
From: Richmond, Virginia, USA
Registered: Apr 2000

posted 05-27-2010 12:35 PM

Never had emulsion come off with any tape, never used anything other than Jack Roe, Neumade and many years ago 3M.

| IP: Logged

Tony Bandiera Jr
Film God

Posts: 3067
From: Moreland Idaho
Registered: Apr 2004

posted 05-27-2010 01:19 PM

Sounds like the prints might have been "wet" from the lab as emulsion that is not fully dried will peel/scrape off easily. (Remember cement splices? Two ways to get the emulsion off was with a wipe of cement or a wet finger then the scraper.)

Note that they don't have to be visibly wet to be considered "wet".

Were these prints new releases and the first time they were run?

| IP: Logged

Mark J. Marshall
Film God

Posts: 3188
From: New Castle, DE, USA
Registered: Aug 2002

posted 05-27-2010 01:48 PM

I actually HAVE seen this, but it was a while ago. I've also seen it with IB prints where the dye peels right off. But I have seen it on polyester prints - although it was a few years ago. I don't remember what movie it was, but I do remember it was a virgin print when we got it and the emulsion peeled off when we were breaking it down. I never saw it again after that, and I just assumed it was a poor quality print for some reason - although it seemed fine otherwise.

| IP: Logged

Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99

posted 05-27-2010 02:36 PM

My bet: Green film.

(i.e. - Freshly processed film that hasn't dried properly.)

| IP: Logged

Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99

posted 05-27-2010 09:28 PM

who's print stock was it

| IP: Logged

Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99

posted 05-27-2010 09:56 PM

These were both new prints when they arrived at the theatre. They were plattered and the emulsion came off of some (not all) reels when the prints were broken down a few weeks later. The green-film theory sounds plausable. I assume that there is no fix for this at the theatre level, correct?

I have not yet had a chance to try to correllate it to lab or film stock, other than that both were color prints.

| IP: Logged

Jack Theakston
Master Film Handler

Posts: 411
From: New York, USA
Registered: Sep 2007

posted 05-27-2010 11:26 PM

You might want to wax the print with whatever your preferred lubricant is.

I've had this happen before and it's usually because when the splice was made, something happened that lifted up part of the emulsion, and the rest comes up with it. Another situation may be a defective binder on the stock.

| IP: Logged

Ian Parfrey
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1049
From: Imbil Australia 26 deg 27' 42.66" S 152 deg 42' 23.40" E
Registered: Feb 2009

posted 05-28-2010 12:17 AM

Scott.

High moisture content prints ( green ) usually clatter a bit more and deposit higher levels of emulsion on the gate bands/skates.

Is this happening at all with your prints?

| IP: Logged

John Hawkinson
Film God

Posts: 2273
From: Cambridge, MA, USA
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 05-28-2010 02:49 AM

Assuming it is moisture, presumably the fix at the theatre level is to somehow identify this is a problem print (does the emulsion feel soft to a fingernail? Can you scratch the leader without much effort, or apply tape and peel off emulsion on the leader?), and then you can dry the affected section before splicing. Perhaps a few minutes in front of fan before splicing?

(If it's a defective binder, then life gets a lot tougher. But there's probably a chemical fix...)

--jhawk

| IP: Logged

Damien Taylor
Master Film Handler

Posts: 493
From: Perth, Western Australia
Registered: Apr 2007

posted 05-28-2010 07:51 AM

I've had emulsion come up when peeling fresh few day old tape up off extremely old dry acetate snipes. So I don't know whether it's something just related to green prints.

| IP: Logged

Jonathan Smith
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 201
From: Youngstown, OH
Registered: Jan 2010

posted 05-28-2010 04:13 PM

when breaking down movies, i only tape on the base. heads dn., tails up is the base side of a 4th gen. release print.

| IP: Logged

All times are Central (GMT -6:00)

Printer-friendly view of this topic

The Film-Tech Forums are designed for various members related to the cinema industry to express their opinions, viewpoints and testimonials on various products, services and events based upon speculation, personal knowledge and factual information through use, therefore all views represented here allow no liability upon the publishers of this web site and the owners of said views assume no liability for any ill will resulting from these postings. The posts made here are for educational as well as entertainment purposes and as such anyone viewing this portion of the website must accept these views as statements of the author of that opinion and agrees to release the authors from any and all liability.