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Author Topic: Crazy Heart shedding like crazy Joe Redifer You need a beating today Posts: 12859 From: Denver, Colorado Registered: May 99 posted 03-01-2010 01:50 PM                        I have a print of Crazy Heart which is shedding blue flakes like crazy, pardon the pun. Looking at the media pads, it is the soundtrack side of the print, emulsion side, SDDS track (or rather where SDDS would go). When looking at the film itself, you can see that the blue is fading away. The print looks fine onscreen other than it being very dirty. It runs fine. But at the end of the show, the entire projector, top to bottom is covered in blue chips. They get all over the film cleaner as well and I am thinking of pulling it because I think at this point it is doing more harm than good by redistributing the flakes since they are starting to get all over the picture area. The only way around this would be to run the cleaner only once and change the pads out each time. Has anyone else seen this type of oddity? Simplex XL, Strong platters. We moved the print for one day last week and the shedding follows the print. The trailers are undamaged and do not shed.  |  IP: Logged Tony Bandiera Jr Film God Posts: 3067 From: Moreland Idaho Registered: Apr 2004 posted 03-01-2010 02:03 PM                     Well, until you said the trailers were undamaged I was going to suggest checking the intermitent sprocket shoes...but... Sounds like just a f'd up print, possibly some sort of lab defect.  |  IP: Logged Jeremy Weigel Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1062 From: Edmond, OK, USA Registered: Mar 2007 posted 03-01-2010 02:12 PM                     We started playing it this past weekend and I have had no reports of shedding. Christie P35C/Strong Platters  |  IP: Logged Joe Redifer You need a beating today Posts: 12859 From: Denver, Colorado Registered: May 99 posted 03-01-2010 03:13 PM                        It didn't start this right away. There were a few occasional flakes here and there from the beginning and it gradually increased. I checked the entire path of the film to see if anything was rubbing on it too hard. The only thing that might be exacerbating the problem is maybe someone putting too much tension on the Cat 702 Dolby Digital reader.  |  IP: Logged Tony Bandiera Jr Film God Posts: 3067 From: Moreland Idaho Registered: Apr 2004 posted 03-01-2010 03:32 PM                     Now that makes me think it could be a bad print from the lab...maybe the edge treatment (if still used...I do miss John P's contributions) was missed or improperly applied? Would excess tension on the 702 do this? I would think you'd also see some sign of sprocket damage...  |  IP: Logged Randy Stankey Film God Posts: 6539 From: Erie, Pennsylvania Registered: Jun 99 posted 03-01-2010 03:38 PM                     Don't know if you have the time to do this but it might help if you clean the print at the bench with a fresh set of media rolls. The reason for this would be to eliminate the possibility of the vicious cycle where "dirt" comes off the film and deposits in the projector's film path then redeposits on the print the next time you run it through. Cleaning at the bench will, hopefully, remove as much "dirt" as possible without the possibility of it getting back on the film. Then you could clean the hell out of the projector and install a fresh set of media rolls. The print should run cleaner even if it isn't completely clean. But if you don't have the luxury of time this will probably be a moot point.  |  IP: Logged Joe Redifer You need a beating today Posts: 12859 From: Denver, Colorado Registered: May 99 posted 03-01-2010 05:39 PM                        I'm sure I could make the time, but the problem is ability. I don't have the ability to clean prints on the bench. I have a Neumade PRT Ultra table so options are extremely limited. I have changed out pads in the middle of the week for it, but it only helps for the one show that it runs "wet". Tony, I have seen one of my guys constantly make the tension one perf too tight on the two 702 readers we have. We have 4 BACP readers and he just applied the same tension on all of them (the BACP requires more "space" between the tensioning rollers than the Dolby-proper readers, it is difficult to get that much tension on the 702, but you can do it). The 702 reads fine with the extra tension and I don't see any sprocket damage (I have checked many times) but I tell him not to do it anyway.  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 03-02-2010 12:09 AM                     I call it a "effed" up print from the lab as well ... I've seen the misalignment (aka.PR-1060's) of the shoes making sharp edges on the sprocket's outboard teeth and creating a "snowstorm" in the operation itself.  |  IP: Logged Manny Montes Master Film Handler Posts: 270 From: United States Registered: Feb 2010 posted 03-02-2010 12:20 AM                     Do you have a lot of print shedding issues? Or is it just crazy heart? We've been playing it for 3 weeks and haven't had any issues, the first show was run through film guard and its been fine.  |  IP: Logged Joe Redifer You need a beating today Posts: 12859 From: Denver, Colorado Registered: May 99 posted 03-02-2010 01:07 AM                        No other issues with other movies. Filmguard applied once per week on new pads, pads run every show. The "wear" is on the emulsion side which eliminates the intermittent show as the cause. Flakes do not appear heavier in one area of the projector than the others. You can see the stuff sitting on top of the print as it sits on the platter deck.  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 03-02-2010 06:47 AM                     It would be hard for a lab to produce an entire print with a problem as the reels are individually printed often on different lines And if it was bad stock then I would again suspect it would not be an isolated problem Check shoes in the trap often flaking is material that was abraded in the previous showing being deposited on the next pass through the machine  |  IP: Logged Scott Norwood Film God Posts: 8146 From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 03-02-2010 07:38 AM                        Did the print previously play at a different theatre? Maybe it was damaged before you received it.  |  IP: Logged Richard P. May Expert Film Handler Posts: 243 From: Los Angeles, CA Registered: Jan 2006 posted 03-02-2010 09:57 AM                     This is something that should be reported to the distributor, and subsequently the the lab that made the print. Gordon's point that all reels are not made at once, or on the same machine, is right, but maybe running on a platter only some of the reels are having this problem, but it looks like the entire print is a fault. I'd guess it's something in the lab processing. DM  |  IP: Logged Joe Redifer You need a beating today Posts: 12859 From: Denver, Colorado Registered: May 99 posted 03-02-2010 10:50 AM                        Scott, print was new. I don't have a lot of time to be checking on individual reels, but most reels seem affected, though definitely some more than others. It might be the first and last reels that are the worst, as if I wipe out parts of the projector during the show, it stays fairly clean for the most part, but it always flaky again at the end. I requested another print last week, but am not sure if I'll get one. The shoes were clean. I did change the bands for the hell of it last week, but no change in flakiness. Could damage like this be caused by misthreading to where the mistreaded show runs fine and causes no other damage to the print? Why are the trailers fine?  |  IP: Logged Jeremy Weigel Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1062 From: Edmond, OK, USA Registered: Mar 2007 posted 03-02-2010 05:37 PM                     Did you check to see if there are any grooves cut in the intermittent shoe and/or pressure pad/skate (I assume you've already checked the intermittent sprocket teeth)? I had all these problems on my 1060's (as well as the shoe being set too close). Replacing the shoes, pads/skate, sprocket and readjustment of the shoe tension and alignment of the gate trap cured all my shedding problems. It does seem odd that the trailers were unaffected, but perhaps a splice near the end of the trailer pack went through and "popped" the shoe over slightly on one or two runs (don't know if this can actually happen)? Are you sure the shedding followed the print or was it the residual flakes still coming off the print in the other projector?  |  IP: Logged

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