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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Belden Wire and does it make a difference (Page 1)

 
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Author Topic: Belden Wire and does it make a difference
Bernie Anderson Jr
Master Film Handler

Posts: 435
From: Woodbridge, New Jersey
Registered: Apr 2000


 - posted 03-01-2010 01:16 PM      Profile for Bernie Anderson Jr   Author's Homepage   Email Bernie Anderson Jr   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Just wondering, does Beldin Wire or it's equivalents make that much of a difference, when compaired to the kind of stuff you get at, lets say Radio Shack? What is the difference and what is the "model" number of wire that you use for cell hookup?

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Tony Bandiera Jr
Film God

Posts: 3067
From: Moreland Idaho
Registered: Apr 2004


 - posted 03-01-2010 01:36 PM      Profile for Tony Bandiera Jr   Email Tony Bandiera Jr   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Bernie, Belden (or Canare) cables DO make a big difference. They are of much higher quality and will outlast cheaper cables. They are also easier to strip and terminate than the cheap brands, so the labor savings can be huge on some installs.

For cell hookup, one run of Belden 8723 (2 shielded pair) or 2 runs of 8451/9451 will do the trick.

8451 and 9451 are electrically the same, just different jacket materials.

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 03-01-2010 01:46 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
9451 is my stock wire it strips and terminates nicely
9452 is my favorite for reel noisey enviroments and mag systems

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Bernie Anderson Jr
Master Film Handler

Posts: 435
From: Woodbridge, New Jersey
Registered: Apr 2000


 - posted 03-01-2010 02:04 PM      Profile for Bernie Anderson Jr   Author's Homepage   Email Bernie Anderson Jr   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Gordon McLeod
9452 is my favorite for reel noisey enviroments and mag systems
I'm assuming when you say noisey, is another way of saying alot of electrical interference? Does it have to do with the sheild?

Bernie

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 03-01-2010 05:12 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
the 9452 has a carbon tape wound with the foil and it is good at rejecting interference

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Bruce Hansen
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 847
From: Stone Mountain, GA, USA
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 03-01-2010 07:06 PM      Profile for Bruce Hansen   Email Bruce Hansen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
From what I have seen, Radio Shack wire is crap. Stiff, hard to work with crap. It is stiff because they like to use just a few large size wire strands, instead of more smaller strands, I guess it's cheeper to make it that way. They don't like to "waste" money on shields. I remember buying some "mike cable" form RS (some years ago) and it had almost NO shielding. The stuff picked up interference like there was no shielding at all. I don't buy RS wire any more. With Belden you know what you are getting is consistently good.

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 03-01-2010 07:11 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I had a Belden VGA cable and it was bad. The cable itself was pretty thin (for my convenience, I guess) and the picture had a lot of ghosting. I went and bought a generic VGA cable which was fat and cheap. Works like a dream.

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Bernie Anderson Jr
Master Film Handler

Posts: 435
From: Woodbridge, New Jersey
Registered: Apr 2000


 - posted 03-01-2010 07:56 PM      Profile for Bernie Anderson Jr   Author's Homepage   Email Bernie Anderson Jr   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hey Gordon,

With the 9452, I guess you run two cables and just twist the common together?

Bernie

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 03-01-2010 08:14 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
On a regular cell to processor I connect the red to the red on one pair and the red of the second to the green and the blacks are connected all togather
On a reverse scan it has a balanced output so the blacks are seperate which is the same as the output of the JAX light preamp

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 03-01-2010 08:35 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
A good example of how crapy West Penn wire is was a problem I ran into just last week. On a Simplex 5 star with C. E. Reverse scanner when you moved the wires going to the pickup the sound would break up and you'd get alot of noise. I discovered this due to having to remove the lateral guide roller for cleaning. I ultimately traced the problem to the West Penn wire supplying the dc power. All appeared ok but trimming off 5 inches of that wire cured the problem. This fortunately was not my install... Had it been there would have been Belden 8451 on that line...

Mark

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Robert Minichino
Master Film Handler

Posts: 350
From: Haskell, NJ, USA
Registered: Dec 2005


 - posted 03-01-2010 08:58 PM      Profile for Robert Minichino   Author's Homepage   Email Robert Minichino   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Joe, are you sure it wasn't a Belkin cable? I've never seen any pre-terminated cable assemblies from Belden.

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 03-01-2010 09:19 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Robert, you are right, it was Belkin! Ha! I thought it was strange for this to be in the Film Handler's Forum.

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004


 - posted 03-01-2010 10:21 PM      Profile for Monte L Fullmer   Email Monte L Fullmer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
More strands in the wire gauge means less voltage needed at a given length

Cheap wire have less strands per gauge size most of the time..

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 03-02-2010 09:39 AM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Monte... The West Penn wire that was in there was the 8451 equivalent. It is just crap wire... somewhere in that 5 inches there is an internal short... or open. I didn't waste my time looking for it, I just clipped out the bad section... The only other acceptable wire I've used quite a bit of over the years is GEPCO. Way more broadcast studios are wired with GEPCO wire then are Belden so in my book it is every bit as good.

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 03-02-2010 09:08 PM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
You'll find that it depends on where the studio is...Belden is, more often than not, the Defaco reference. 1694A and 1505 are about as standard for Broadcast as they come.

As for West Penn...their equivalent to 8451 is 291. I can't say I've ever had a short in their stuff...their consistency is way off and you WILL spend more time, per connection, with West Penn than Belden. I have no problem with Belden, Gepco, Canare and Mogomi. West Penn...I'm much more selective on the "okay" cables.

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