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Author Topic: 16mm cue standards?
Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 03-01-2010 11:26 AM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
What is the current standard for changeover cues in 16mm? Did it change when the 35mm standard changed a few years ago (for most, but not all, labs)?

Is it 18 or 24 frames between the last cue and the last frame of picture?

Is it 168 or 172 frames between cues?

Does Swank still use its own wacky (non-)standard? (I don't remember what it is, but it does not conform to any of the 35mm standards.)

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Jonathan Smith
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 201
From: Youngstown, OH
Registered: Jan 2010


 - posted 03-01-2010 11:36 AM      Profile for Jonathan Smith   Email Jonathan Smith   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Are new 16mm prints still made?

One of the last holdouts, from the scuttlebut I'd heard was the U.S. military distributing films on 16mm instead of 35mm, but now with HD looking, arguably, better in most cases, what's the point of distributing on 16mm really?

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Jeffry L. Johnson
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 809
From: Cleveland, Ohio, USA
Registered: Apr 2000


 - posted 03-01-2010 11:38 AM      Profile for Jeffry L. Johnson   Author's Homepage   Email Jeffry L. Johnson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The current SMPTE 301 Projection Leader standard is valid for 70mm, 35mm, and 16mm.

Spacing is 172 frames between Motor Cue and Changeover Cue, and 18 frames between the Changeover Cue and the first frame of the Runout Section of the Trailer (Foot) Leader.

If the 16mm print uses the SMPTE Universal Leader, then the cue spacing should follow SMPTE 55.

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Jonathan Smith
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 201
From: Youngstown, OH
Registered: Jan 2010


 - posted 03-01-2010 12:06 PM      Profile for Jonathan Smith   Email Jonathan Smith   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hey Jeff. Didn't know you were on here!

If you'll recall, I've worked with you twice at AMC in Rocky River along with Dan. I also cover for Scotty when you and he are programming trailers at the OMNIMAX, at the Detroit Theatre.

My understanding was that 16mm prints were completely ceased two years ago (or so).

Prior to that there was a transition away from frame numbers (in 35mm) to feet (a step backwards, especially for the non-Anglo countries that don't even know what a foot is).

Would that transition have taken place early enough to have effected the last of the new 16mm reduction print releases?

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Tony Bandiera Jr
Film God

Posts: 3067
From: Moreland Idaho
Registered: Apr 2004


 - posted 03-01-2010 02:07 PM      Profile for Tony Bandiera Jr   Email Tony Bandiera Jr   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Not to mention that so many 16mm prints I have run across are either missing footage from the tails or have several sets of cues of all kinds added by incompetent boobs who don't know how to do a proper changeover. [Roll Eyes]

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Frank Angel
Film God

Posts: 5305
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 03-01-2010 02:26 PM      Profile for Frank Angel   Author's Homepage   Email Frank Angel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I haven't seen a 16mm print with proper cues for decades, even when they were still releasing Hollywood titles in that format. As Tony says, what you got 95% of the time were terrible hand-made crap all over the place. Even when we did run 16mm change-over a few decades ago, I could never rely on what was on the print unless it was an actual black dot lab cue that would be there if the reduction was made from a 35mm internegative. But the hand-made stuff -- most of the time what I was doing was blacking that stuff out with line applique -- better to have an audience see an immoble black edge move into the picture for a few seconds than those damn dancing circles and Xs and what not. Now if we were in Iran, they would just cut the fingers off those idiots who mared prints with their stupidity.

Then we moved to long-play reels and that did away with any concern for change-over cues, other than to cover them up.

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Jeffry L. Johnson
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 809
From: Cleveland, Ohio, USA
Registered: Apr 2000


 - posted 03-04-2010 12:18 PM      Profile for Jeffry L. Johnson   Author's Homepage   Email Jeffry L. Johnson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
There's some background to SMPTE 301 in this thread.

Searching will probably lead to others.

I don't know if 16mm reduction prints of recent releases are still being made.

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Robert E. Allen
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1078
From: Checotah, Oklahoma
Registered: Jul 2002


 - posted 03-04-2010 03:21 PM      Profile for Robert E. Allen   Email Robert E. Allen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I was told on another site that the studios stopped duping 16mm prints in '06. Can't confirm that but Swank, Criterion or Modern Sound should be able to tell you.

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