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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Amega M-3 Fullcoat recorder

   
Author Topic: Amega M-3 Fullcoat recorder
Chris Maness
Film Handler

Posts: 4
From: Grand Terrace, CA
Registered: Jan 2010


 - posted 01-17-2010 12:13 AM      Profile for Chris Maness   Author's Homepage   Email Chris Maness   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I am restoring a sync sound fullcoat recorder. This recorder has the ability to slave off of a projector to run at exactly the same frame rate as the projector. Does anyone know if there was any standards for sync pulses or pilot tone back in the late 60's to early 70's. It takes a six pin amphenol (military type) connector to tether it to a camera. I would imagine it was used for gathering news. It takes 16mm fully magnetic coated sound recording material.

Thanks,
Chris Maness

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 01-17-2010 10:10 AM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I would have thought the Amega used selsyn mnotors to operate in interlock. Both motors have to be the same or at least compatable with each other. Since the late 70's all interlocks have been electronic using either DC servos or stepper motor drive. They exactly follow an encoder mounted somewhere convenient on the projector or sound head.

Mark

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Chris Maness
Film Handler

Posts: 4
From: Grand Terrace, CA
Registered: Jan 2010


 - posted 01-17-2010 06:56 PM      Profile for Chris Maness   Author's Homepage   Email Chris Maness   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The instructions in the lid refers to pulses. Inside the unit, there is a 480Hz tuning fork. The nice thing is that 480 can be evenly divided by 60 and 24. The instructions also refer to a built in inverter. I would imagine that the inverter puts out 60Hz regulated by the standard tuning fork (remember armitron watches?) There is a board inside labeled DIVIDER. I would imagine that this would have to do with syncing the unit. If it is referring to sync pulses in the instructions, then I would imagine that it does not run off of a servo motor or a pilotone from a camera motor, but sync pulses.

1000Hz pulses are a bit of a standard. If so, I wonder how I can figure what level to play into the unit without frying something. The camera tether looks like it CUEs the tape deck too. There are 4 wires coming from the amphenol connector.

I plan on using a photo-transistor by the screen, and build a circuit to convert the projector flicker into pulses. My projector records on mag stripe film. So if I can find an outfit to stripe my processed 16mm film, I can record the fullcoat soundtrack to my film, and I will have a projectable 16mm sync sound film.

Thanks,
Chris

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Richard B. Perrine
Film Handler

Posts: 89
From: Cuyahoga Falls, Ohio
Registered: Apr 2000


 - posted 01-17-2010 08:15 PM      Profile for Richard B. Perrine   Email Richard B. Perrine   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Usually, we just put a shaft encoder on the shutter shaft, movement or sprocket shaft ...and let it generate the drive pulses to send to the dubber.
Check in with Scott Sound in Burbank....they'll know what it takes to lock the projector.
Also I don't think you'll find anyone to stripe your film....not enough of it being done to keep a company going.

Sned the mag track out with the picture....make the optical sound neg and a print.

RBPerrine

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 01-17-2010 08:46 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
All the amega i worked with were selsyn drive except for one that was pilot tone drive

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Chris Maness
Film Handler

Posts: 4
From: Grand Terrace, CA
Registered: Jan 2010


 - posted 01-17-2010 08:50 PM      Profile for Chris Maness   Author's Homepage   Email Chris Maness   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
@Richard

How much does printing from a negative cost (W/ Optical track)? I remember seeing the price and saying to myself, "that is REALLY expensive."

I was told there are some DIY machines for striping film, and they still could be found. However, I am open to the idea of optical track. My projector can handle both.

@Gordon

Since the instructions in the lid refers to pulse sync, would it be the best approach to work under the assumption that it is a pulse synced fullcoat deck? How would I be able to tell if it was selsyn? Did the dubbers or decks you guys used have internal sync capability? This deck does. It is a field recorder with a built in AC inverter. The only date reference was a sticker on the nicad pack that said 1976. However, the cabinet screams 60's design. When did Amega go out of business?

Here is a link to photos of the deck:

http://tinyurl.com/amega-m3

Check out step #9 in the photos. It says "9. Sync Source Camera-Pulse Turn Sync camera switch to Fwd."

Chris

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 01-18-2010 09:09 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I havent seen that one
but the pilot tone worked on a tone generator in the camera being recorded on a seperate head aligned 45 degrees to the travel
this also drove the sprocket
on playback that tone drove the projector motor to sync the footage to the film

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Sean Weitzel
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 619
From: Vacaville, CA (1790 miles west of Rockwall)
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 01-18-2010 10:18 PM      Profile for Sean Weitzel   Email Sean Weitzel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Magnetic striping is a very rare process and only a few are doing it anymore. Most of it is geared towards super8mm films. I believe, but am not certain that Paul Yost in San Carlos, CA does 16mm striping at $0.35 a foot. You should definitely contact him before sending in your film.
http://lavender.fortunecity.com/lavender/569/poststripeservices.html

If that service is no longer available, you will likely have to ship your film to Germany. Andec Film or Wittner may do 16mm striping.

You are correct that having an optical track made will be very expensive. If you are starting with a positive, you will likely pay in the neighborhood of $0.40 a foot for the track neg, and whatever the lab charges for an internegative, and an answer print. http://www.cinemalab.com/ was one lab I was able to find that offers track negatives and publishes their prices online. I know http://www.alphacine.com/ was offering all of these services, but I was unable to find prices for track negatives listed in their rate card. It's possible http://www.colorlab.com/ may offer these services as well, but I was not able to find and concrete reference.

It's a shame how the world changed. Years ago, labs used to offer a service called "electroprinting" that took away the need to have an optical track made. Basically, you conformed a positive, and sent that with a fullcoat magnetic track to the lab and they made a print on reversal film and printed in the soundtrack at the same time directly onto the print. W.A. Palmer films in Belmont, CA were a notable lab offering this service.

Good luck with your project!

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Chris Maness
Film Handler

Posts: 4
From: Grand Terrace, CA
Registered: Jan 2010


 - posted 01-19-2010 10:55 AM      Profile for Chris Maness   Author's Homepage   Email Chris Maness   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
@ Gordon

I have mostly figured it out by reverse engineering. I have it down to one wire taking some kind of pulse. The DIVIDER board takes this pulse and converts to 60Hz (probably by multiplication), drives an inverter with it to achieve a 60Hz 120 VAC signal that drives a sync motor (not a selsyn just a motor that turns at a fixed speed for a given input AC frequency). When the unit is in internal sync mode, it derives its clock from a 480Hz tuning fork. The divider board divides the 480Hz by 8 to achieve 60Hz. The tuning fork frequency is spot on accurate.

I tried running 24Hz pulses from my audio card to drive the camera sync input. I tried about have of the volume range of my laptop to see if different voltages might trigger it. No Dice [Embarrassed] (.

I am either going to make a schematic from the DIVIDER board, and try to simulate it in software to see what I can get it to do, or build a circuit that I have plans for. This circuit generates 1000Hz pulses with a duration of 20ms @24Hz. I guess this is kind of an industry standard. I am kind of broke after buying a custom battery pack for it, so maybe I will learn SPICE, and put the schematic in, and see what I can get the thing to do.

@Sean

Thanks for the leads. I will definitely look into it. The prices you quoted are not too bad. I had in mind thousands for a short movie. I can deal with $600 if I am confident about showing my movie to a larger crowd. I wonder how much 35mm blowups would cost for that matter.

Thanks for coming back guys, not too many folks have ANY clue about this stuff.

Chris Maness

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