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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Century JJ vs. Simplex XL for reel to reel (Page 1)

 
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Author Topic: Century JJ vs. Simplex XL for reel to reel
Kirk Futrell
Film Handler

Posts: 95
From: Nashville, TN / U.S.A.
Registered: Nov 2008


 - posted 12-16-2009 11:34 AM      Profile for Kirk Futrell   Author's Homepage   Email Kirk Futrell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I am currently considering the merits of 2 Century JJ vs. 2 used Simplex XL projectors. We are setting up a reel to reel / platter booth. My criteria is mainly reliability and steadiness of picture. So, if you had to pick, which would you choose and why?
P.S. They will be used in conjunction with Strong super 80 lamphouses and IREM rectifiers.
Thanks for your time!

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Jack Theakston
Master Film Handler

Posts: 411
From: New York, USA
Registered: Sep 2007


 - posted 12-16-2009 11:40 AM      Profile for Jack Theakston   Email Jack Theakston   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Both are great machines. The JJ is pretty much the next great line after the XL. Properly serviced, both have rock steady pictures. The XL is easier to service and probably a little gentler on film.

You can't go wrong picking either one, in my opinion.

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Richard May
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1057
From: Floral Park, NY USA
Registered: Aug 2004


 - posted 12-16-2009 11:53 AM      Profile for Richard May   Email Richard May   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I agree. We are running 70MM 3-D on 2 simplex 35/70 machines. That has to be as steady as possible. It's rock solid.

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Fred Georges
Master Film Handler

Posts: 257
From: Lombard, IL, USA
Registered: Jun 2000


 - posted 12-16-2009 11:54 AM      Profile for Fred Georges   Email Fred Georges   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
This gets into the never ending argument as to which is the better machine. Century or Simplex. Since your dealing with used machines I'd want to know the condition of each. I "prefer" Centurys (Especially JJ's) because a good one is Rock steady on screen & very easy on film. Plus..BONUS..It can run 70mm! Also, depending on vintage, you might have the Cinefocus feature which can be invaluable with your high wattage lamphouse & of course, a water cooled trap. The downer is the combo 35/70 sprockets are going to cost much more to replace when the time comes. I like the Simplex XL's conical shutter. They can also be rock steady on screen. I don't like the fact that they tend to piss oil all over the booth. [Big Grin]

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 12-16-2009 12:01 PM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Either machine would be perfectly good.

In favor of the X-Ls: the machines are smaller and don't typically come with mag penthouses, so they would be preferable if you have a ceiling height limit. Operating cost will likely be lower, as there are some JJ-specific parts that are expensive (trap bands, sprockets, etc.). If you get some random operator who has never been in your booth before, there is a better chance that he's run X-Ls than 35/70 machines like the JJs.

In favor of the JJs: they will run 70mm film as well as 35mm, should you ever feel the need to do that. They are typically better with shrunken or damaged film than X-Ls. They have double-shutters and water-cooled gates, should you need to light a very large screen. Lenses can easily be shifted for silent or mag prints. The soundhead does not have any parts that touch the picture area of the film (unlike Simplex and RCA soundheads).

All other things being equal, I'd probably take the X-Ls for a 35mm-only installation.

I know of a good pair of JJs with bases and reel arms for sale if you end up going that route and don't already have a particular set of machines in mind.

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Sean McKinnon
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1712
From: Peabody Massachusetts
Registered: Sep 2000


 - posted 12-16-2009 01:20 PM      Profile for Sean McKinnon   Author's Homepage   Email Sean McKinnon   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
As Scott said if you ever plan to run 70mm id take the JJ's if you only plan to run 35mm then take the xl's imo.

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Kirk Futrell
Film Handler

Posts: 95
From: Nashville, TN / U.S.A.
Registered: Nov 2008


 - posted 12-16-2009 02:05 PM      Profile for Kirk Futrell   Author's Homepage   Email Kirk Futrell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Great. As it turns out JJ's are out of our price range. So the X-L's win. Thanks for the suggestions.

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Louis Bornwasser
Film God

Posts: 4441
From: prospect ky usa
Registered: Mar 2005


 - posted 12-16-2009 04:04 PM      Profile for Louis Bornwasser   Author's Homepage   Email Louis Bornwasser   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
One warning: all JJ's are curved gates. Some XL's are curved gates; NONE are curved from a military origin.

We remanufacture both of them and operationally can add nothing to the above. There are about half the parts in any Century compared to the XL and the soundhead is superior in the Century. I, too, have a slight preference for the Century.

Parts: all XL parts are available and the JJ shares 95% of its parts with the regular Century, which are commonly available from multiple sources. Louis

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 12-16-2009 07:18 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Truth be known the Simplex IS NOT a 70mm projector. It was and still is actually a 65MM projector(originally hand built for Panavision and Canera 65) and it was never updated during it's production life to be a real 70mm projector. It has 65mm sprockets, 65mm gate bands, etc. All they've to allow 70mm to be run is to widen the lateral guide roller in the trap and widen the spacing of the pad rollers. The intermittent is also a bit smallish for alot of 70mm use and will wear much faster. The film overhangs the edges of the gate bands and curved runner.... bad thing! The penthouse (all versions) is a dragger meaning there is no driven sprocket so you may experience much higher wow and flutter running reel to reel than with a driven penthouse which better isolates the feed reel motion from the penthouse stabilizer.

My preference and in this order. IMHO there are no other viable 70mm projectors usable today so my list is short. I know Guttag will step in to add the Kinoton electronic projectors but I don't really consider any projector with a $35,000.00 intermittent to be a viable projector for every day use.
There is no better built 70mm projector that is as easy on film as a DP-70!

DP-70
Century JJ
Cinemecanicca Vic-8
DP-75

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 12-16-2009 07:18 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Truth be known the Simplex IS NOT a 70mm projector. It was and still is actually a 65MM projector(originally hand built for Panavision and Canera 65) and it was never updated during it's production life to be a real 70mm projector. It has 65mm sprockets, 65mm gate bands, etc. All they've to allow 70mm to be run is to widen the lateral guide roller in the trap and widen the spacing of the pad rollers. The intermittent is also a bit smallish for alot of 70mm use and will wear much faster. The film overhangs the edges of the gate bands and curved runner.... bad thing! The penthouse (all versions) is a dragger meaning there is no driven sprocket so you may experience much higher wow and flutter running reel to reel than with a driven penthouse which better isolates the feed reel motion from the penthouse stabilizer.

My preference and in this order. IMHO there are no other viable 70mm projectors usable today so my list is short. I know Guttag will step in to add the Kinoton electronic projectors but I don't really consider any projector with a $35,000.00 intermittent to be a viable projector for every day use.
There is no better built 70mm projector than a DP-70!

DP-70
Century JJ
Cinemecanicca Vic-8
DP-75

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 12-16-2009 07:19 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Truth be known the Simplex IS NOT a 70mm projector. It was and still is actually a 65MM projector(originally hand built for Panavision and Canera 65) and it was never updated during it's production life to be a real 70mm projector. It has 65mm sprockets, 65mm gate bands, etc. All they've to allow 70mm to be run is to widen the lateral guide roller in the trap and widen the spacing of the pad rollers. The intermittent is also a bit smallish for alot of 70mm use and will wear much faster. The film overhangs the edges of the gate bands and curved runner.... bad thing! The penthouse (all versions) is a dragger meaning there is no driven sprocket so you may experience much higher wow and flutter running reel to reel than with a driven penthouse which better isolates the feed reel motion from the penthouse stabilizer.

My preference and in this order. IMHO there are no other viable 70mm projectors usable today so my list is short. I know Guttag will step in to add the Kinoton electronic projectors but I don't really consider any projector with a $35,000.00 intermittent to be a viable projector for every day use.
There is no better built 70mm projector that is as easy on film as a DP-70!

DP-70
Century JJ
Cinemecanicca Vic-8
DP-75

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Richard May
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1057
From: Floral Park, NY USA
Registered: Aug 2004


 - posted 12-16-2009 07:48 PM      Profile for Richard May   Email Richard May   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
We heard you the first time. [Big Grin]

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Damien Taylor
Master Film Handler

Posts: 493
From: Perth, Western Australia
Registered: Apr 2007


 - posted 12-16-2009 08:20 PM      Profile for Damien Taylor   Email Damien Taylor   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Dual gauge Vic 8s are acceptable and cheap.

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 12-16-2009 08:34 PM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The "dragger" penthouse is not in and of itself the problem...the problem is that they didn't get the design right. The spring they have to overcome gravity, doesn't so the rollers move to the bottom every time...

They also don't have a proper head shield for either the 35mm or 70mm mag heads.

As to 70mm projectors...yeah, I will say the FP75 is THE projector and where did you get your $35K price on the intermittent...I defy you so show any quote from Kinoton for it to be anywhere NEAR that price. Whereas I've sold that intermittent for key locations that demand spares for key components, I can assure you, it isn't even 5 digits past the decimal (at least none I've sold). Why do you make up things?

The only thing I don't like about the FP75E(S) is the double dissolving shutter. It inherently puts a strobe on the screen like all double shutters. In 3-wing mode, the strobe virtually goes away. That image is spooky steady in 35mm or 70mm.

As for everyday use...they are in use everyday at many locations (both conventional theatres like Arclight and at special venue like Museums...including in dual-strip 3D 70mm) and not a problematic machine at all.

As to the poster's question, I tend to agree with the other opinions. Either will do a good job and the XL is fine for 35mm only. The Century JJs do better with 35mm than SAs, image wise.

Steve

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Richard May
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1057
From: Floral Park, NY USA
Registered: Aug 2004


 - posted 12-17-2009 09:42 AM      Profile for Richard May   Email Richard May   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I understand the whole thing with Simplex being 65MM, but we run 70MM on it all the time. The picture is rock steady and the mag head works fine. I don't see any issues with it.

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