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Author Topic: Rewind table with no speed control Celine Negrete Film Handler Posts: 70 From: Nevada City, CA Registered: Nov 2009 posted 12-11-2009 10:40 PM                        Howdy! New here...and I really want to learn! Bear with me if my level of understanding is not very high yet, please. I am taking over management of a small 65-seat, single screen theatre, and have many questions. But, I will start with one: We have a rewind table that only has an "on" and "off" option (pic included). We use 6000' reels, and all films are presented with an intermission (no room for a 2nd projector, or for platters). So all build-up and break-down occurs with this table. You hit "on" and it makes a loud sound and just starts up in high speed. To stop it, you switch to "off" and must use a towel in hand to slow the reel (especially when stopping for splices during break-down). Seems kind of rough on the film! I have only used rewind tables (in the past) that had speed control. Interested in whether or not this is something that should be/could be changed? And what would be involved in changing it to a table with speed control? Like I said, this is my first question....more to come ;-) We will definitely be hiring someone to come in and train me on maintenance and troubleshooting of our equipment so I will be learning more soon. But, wondering what advice you all can offer now? Thanks in advance, Celine  |  IP: Logged Tim Reed Better Projection Pays Posts: 5246 From: Northampton, PA Registered: Sep 1999 posted 12-11-2009 11:39 PM                       Whatdaya say, Celine! Wow, how old is this place that it only ever had one projector? Judging from the angle of the belt going up, the rewind looks like it might be an old TECO mounted to a Neumade bench. Not much you can do with it at this point, without buying something. Like a variac to control the speed. You'd be much better off, of course, with something like a new Kelmar bench. Someone here may even have a used one you can get on the cheap...  |  IP: Logged Frank Angel Film God Posts: 5305 From: Brooklyn NY USA Registered: Dec 1999 posted 12-12-2009 01:40 AM                        Hi Celine, welcome. Not to worry about your level of expertise, one of the things you will find about this forum is the generosity of spirit of most of the members. With the numbers we have here, there is usually someone who has an answer to almost anything you can think of asking. So don't be shy. Your instincts are right, of course, that unit is very hard on film and no doubt hard on your hands as well. Very bad; it really needs to be corrected before some serious damage happens to a print. And it can happen in the blink of an eye, film spewing up in the air like a water fountain, and you instinctively trying to stop the out-of-control reel and hurting yourself. The unit can be outfitted with an variable autotransformer or as Tim says, a variac. Neither will break the bank, but although it will fix the big problem, it will only be a less than perfect fix. All other aspects of the rewind needs to be looked at as well -- does it have the proper adjustable hold back resistance on the feed reel -- other than that towel, I mean? Does it allow you to disengage the drive motor so you can turn the takeup reel it if you need to find a splice point? Does it have a clean, smooth work surface so any film that touches it doesn't get scratched or dirtied? Most rewind tables have Formica laminate which is smooth enough so as not to hurt film emulsion should it accidently be pulled across it. I agree that you should try to find a good, used table such as the Kelmar Tim mentioned -- one in decent condition so that will be one less thing you need to worry about. I like your attitude that you are willing to learn and take instruction. I can't imagine that in area of CA you won't be able to find someone who has cinema in his blood and would love to give you that mentoring, helping hand you are looking for. Hunt him or her down and that person can be an invaluable resource. If you weren't on the other side of the continent, I would love to come by to play. It's exactly the kind of thing lots of us would jump at the chance to help. TAKE MORE PICTURES! Let's see the entire booth and theatre as well. I am sure the moderator wouldn't mind you posting more of the booth, but we do have a more formal section just for comprehensive pictures where you can upload interiors and exteriors as well (check it out in the side panel). And best of luck to you with your venture. There aren't a lot of us single screeners around -- and even fewer that are not non-theatrical. Also, post a link if the theatre has a website.  |  IP: Logged Louis Bornwasser Film God Posts: 4441 From: prospect ky usa Registered: Mar 2005 posted 12-12-2009 04:00 PM                        Wow! Sounds like a perfect location for an old Jumbo Sword! (small booth and only one projector) Not for everone, BUT occcasionally appropriate. You rewind on the machine like a giant 16mm projector. Makeup on the same machine. Up to 48" reel, servo controlled. Louis  |  IP: Logged Tim Reed Better Projection Pays Posts: 5246 From: Northampton, PA Registered: Sep 1999 posted 12-12-2009 04:11 PM                       That was my first thought, too, Louis (or at least a regular Sword or DBL-MUT), but I didn't want to hit her with too much right off the bat.  |  IP: Logged Bruce Hansen Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 847 From: Stone Mountain, GA, USA Registered: Dec 1999 posted 12-12-2009 04:15 PM                     Can a TRAIC type "dimmer" be used with that type of motor?  |  IP: Logged Tim Reed Better Projection Pays Posts: 5246 From: Northampton, PA Registered: Sep 1999 posted 12-12-2009 04:24 PM                       If it can handle a pretty hefty inductive load, I don't see why not...  |  IP: Logged Celine Negrete Film Handler Posts: 70 From: Nevada City, CA Registered: Nov 2009 posted 12-12-2009 06:22 PM                        Hey Guys, Thanks for all the support and advice! As for a new table...probably a good idea down the line, but right now we only change films once every 2-3 weeks so it wouldn't really make sense to invest money there when there are other places (like the sound system) that need upgrading too (and that is something we use every day). I was wondering the same thing, if a dimmer typed switch could replace the on/off switch to give me a little more control? Seems like the easiest solution for now? As for the theatre...it has been around for almost 20 years. About 10 in the current location. I believe all the equipment was purchased used. ~Celine  |  IP: Logged Jarret Chessell Master Film Handler Posts: 288 From: London, Ontario, Canada Registered: Jan 2009 posted 12-12-2009 06:45 PM                     a home depot light switch dimmer won't work. You'll burn something out. A variac would be better suited. I'd imagine you could get one from a motor repair/supply store. Have you considered a film tower? It takes up less space than a second projector or a platter system. You would make up an entire film on a 1200' reel. btw, your rewinder looks just like one we rigged together on the cheap for rewinding our preview reel  |  IP: Logged Scott Norwood Film God Posts: 8146 From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 12-12-2009 07:02 PM                        I tried a heavy-duty variac on an old Neumade table once and had no luck. The motor would sync to the AC line and either spun at full speed or not at all, depending upon the voltage. For this type of motor, you would need an inverter drive unit. It might be easier to replace the motor with a DC model and use a rheostat to control it. That stuff should all be available from the Grainger catalog. At the very least, I hope that there is some sort of handcrank on the driven end of that table and that you manually start the reel spinning and get it up to full speed before turning on the motor. I'll second (or third) the recommendation for the double-MUT. It could even be located in an adjacent room and would take up very little space. I ran one once at a festival and it seemed to be very gentle on film.  |  IP: Logged Celine Negrete Film Handler Posts: 70 From: Nevada City, CA Registered: Nov 2009 posted 12-12-2009 07:24 PM                        Hi Scott, There is no 'adjacent room' at our place. Small, little booth (I can get measurements tonight), small lobby/concession stand and then the 65-seat auditorium. The space was a regular storefront that was converted to a theatre. Even the bathroom is in a crazy place...down front to the right of the screen...in the auditorium! In that respect, it is probably good that we have an intermission!  |  IP: Logged Tim Reed Better Projection Pays Posts: 5246 From: Northampton, PA Registered: Sep 1999 posted 12-12-2009 07:46 PM                       Ooops... for some silly reason, I was thinking Bruce was talking about a theatrical house light dimmer (!!!), not a household/wallswitch dimmer!  |  IP: Logged Cameron Glendinning Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 845 From: West Ryde, Sydney, NSW Australia Registered: Dec 2005 posted 12-12-2009 08:20 PM                     Are the seats comfortable? If your audience is use to the interval and are warned about I don't really see it as big issue. Clearly a 65 seat cinema is more a novelty and in itself its quirkiness is probably part of the appeal of going there. As for the winder I have worked with similar. Although not ideal by any means the real question is it damaging the film? Usually this damage is in the form of "rain" which are black dots marked into the print (not dust) near the end of the reel. Things that can make a real difference is the tension setting on the no motor arm (if there are any?) ideally this would be set that the film is actually moving quite slow when a full 6000 is aproaching the end of its wind. The other thing that can make an improvement is if you slow the start of the wind with your hand (or towel) for the first five minutes of footage of the wind. Anyway I too would love to see some pictures of your cinema and booth. What sort of sound do you currently have? any issues with it? If/when you want to run the whole film without a break, if you are not a weightlifter I would avoid the tower, some involve lifting the whole feature to head level, the eprad double mut is a great unit for small boxs. Best of luck with your new venture.  |  IP: Logged Scott Norwood Film God Posts: 8146 From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 12-12-2009 08:30 PM                        For whatever it's worth... Behold the double-MUT: This one was set up to feed from one room into the booth and back: Unfortunately, I neglected to take a picture of the thing when it was actually in operation. One of the big reels (we used Goldberg platter reels, but any sort of large reel with 1/2" hub would work) feeds from one side of the unit (closer to the wall), and the takeup reel goes on the other side (away from the wall). Speed is regulated to create a constant takeup tension throughout the reel. The concept with this temporary rental setup was to be able to show archival prints (there were two projectors in the booth) and also be able to run regular festival prints and easily exchange them with the theatre down the street, which was a typical platter-house multiplex (hence, the Goldberg platter reels). A platter reel could be removed from the takeup side of the double-MUT and immediately placed on a platter and run as-is in the other theatre. I can't take credit for the concept, but it worked quite well. Obviously, the original poster doesn't need to do this, but I offer it as an example of an unusual application where the double-MUT made sense. edit: Here are two more shots (sorry for the crappy scans...my scanner sucks) that show how one of these will fit into a small booth. In this case, the MUT was being used to run a magnetic soundtrack through a dubber (the picture was on a platter) for a screening: Note the Kelmar table in the background to give an idea of the size of the unit:  |  IP: Logged Chris Slycord Film God Posts: 2986 From: 퍼항시, 경상푹도, South Korea Registered: Mar 2007 posted 12-12-2009 08:33 PM                     quote: Celine Negrete There is no 'adjacent room' at our place. But if you only change out movies every few weeks, you could easily have the Double-MUT put in the space currently taken up by your rewind bench. Plus, the double MUT's I've seen in pictures seem to take up little space. Or the similar suggestion of a SWORD device would also take little space since the payout and takeup reels would just be on the side of the pedestal.  |  IP: Logged

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