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Author Topic: neg dirt on "the boys are back" Carl Martin Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1424 From: Oakland, CA, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 10-09-2009 04:49 PM                        my print (#165) of the boys are back has a serious case of negative dirt on the left half of the image in reel 4. any one else have this? i don't want to order another reel with the same problem.  |  IP: Logged Bill Gabel Film God Posts: 3873 From: Technicolor / Postworks NY, USA Registered: Jan 2002 posted 10-09-2009 04:55 PM                     Had no problems here with the studio prints in NYC.  |  IP: Logged Jim Cassedy Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1661 From: San Francisco, CA Registered: Dec 2006 posted 10-12-2009 10:02 AM                     That's interesting. The print I received of THE INFORMANT several weeks ago also had a lot of neg dirt on reel 4.  |  IP: Logged Tony Bandiera Jr Film God Posts: 3067 From: Moreland Idaho Registered: Apr 2004 posted 10-12-2009 01:51 PM                     Wanna bet both reels came from the same lab? What lab did those reels come from guys?  |  IP: Logged Karl Borowski Expert Film Handler Posts: 161 From: Sulking in GameFAQ Forum Registered: Sep 2009 posted 10-12-2009 04:20 PM                     I'm sure this is what you already mean, but these days it is probably dirt on the IN, not OCN or IP steps. Despite my disliking the DI process, I have to admit that physical problems, like lab splices, seem to have gone way down since the optical finish days.  |  IP: Logged John Hawkinson Film God Posts: 2273 From: Cambridge, MA, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 10-12-2009 06:05 PM                     That doesn't make any sense, Karl. Lab splices should be just as frequent. I haven't noticed a reduction (not that I keep stats). WHy would you think it might be related? --jhawk  |  IP: Logged Ian Parfrey Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1049 From: Imbil Australia 26 deg 27' 42.66" S 152 deg 42' 23.40" E Registered: Feb 2009 posted 10-12-2009 06:14 PM                     jHawke I'm guessing he's referring to "scene splices" that used to be seen frequently on 'scope prints from internegs with no digital intermediate.  |  IP: Logged Carl Martin Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1424 From: Oakland, CA, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 10-13-2009 01:08 AM                        our replacement reel, despite having played at least 2 theaters previously, was not overly abused, looks good, and has no negative dirt (which seems like a perfectly valid term to me). and of course this was a DI movie. with 2 lab splices.  |  IP: Logged Jim Cassedy Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1661 From: San Francisco, CA Registered: Dec 2006 posted 10-13-2009 06:06 PM                     Tony- I no longer have that print in house. It was a deluxe print. I don't know for sure where it came from, and yes, I should have made note. I also want to clear up (no pun intended!) my comments. My problem with reel 4 was many many black specks dancing through the image for most of reel 4, but most pronounced towards the end of the reel. At first it looked simply like a dirty print, except that my print was new and on further inspection I found that it was IN the print, not ON the print. I've always thought 'negative dirt' would show up as white specks, but these were black. So I'm not sure what they were, but they definately were lab-related, and did not appear to be simple water spots, etc.  |  IP: Logged Karl Borowski Expert Film Handler Posts: 161 From: Sulking in GameFAQ Forum Registered: Sep 2009 posted 10-13-2009 06:23 PM                     So they were from the IP (interpositive) not the IN step . As for my references to lab splices being down, I'm talking about the printed-through kind more than actual splices on the prints. However, I have noticed, though unrelated, that the latter also seems to be down since DIs predominated the movie business. I remember seeing a print of "The Alamo" (the 2004-5 movie with Billy Bob Thornton in case I got the title wrong) where there were very noticeably splices between shots. These don't really bother me, because anamorphic is really beautiful when it is printed the old-fashioned way, much sharper. Maybe the print I saw was slightly out of frame which accentuated the noticibility of the problem. Not like, though, that anyone in the audience except us film geeks notices this sort of thing. Most people in my family think that film hasn't been used in theatrical projection since the advent of VHS tape  |  IP: Logged John Hawkinson Film God Posts: 2273 From: Cambridge, MA, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 10-13-2009 06:43 PM                     On a properly cut aperture a cinemascope negative splice should never be visible. End of story. A handful of movies have the splices done wrong. Like The Passion of Christ. But usually the problem is just an overcut aperture. --jhawk  |  IP: Logged Karl Borowski Expert Film Handler Posts: 161 From: Sulking in GameFAQ Forum Registered: Sep 2009 posted 10-13-2009 07:01 PM                     But wasn't "Passion" a DI? Yeah, you are right that they shouldn't be visible at all, but obviously there is a lot more room for slop when you are only using 3 perforations instead of four and there are only a few thousandths of an inch between scope frames and several hundred between flat frames. As for my viewing of "Alamo" I assume there is no way to get around them being visible if the film isn't hard matted in the printer and the film is mis-framed slightly, right? Not all scope, nor flat films, for that matter are hard-matted. Even now you still see films without the hard-matting.  |  IP: Logged John Hawkinson Film God Posts: 2273 From: Cambridge, MA, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 10-13-2009 07:11 PM                     I don't think it was (and the error wouldn't make much sense if it did), but it hardly matters. If you're out of frame, you will see stuff you should not. That's the definition of out of frame! Don't be out of frame. Whether it is hard-matted or soft-matted doesn't matter if you are framed right. And if it is hard matted and you are framed wrong, you are still making an error. It's just not a dramatically noticable one. Anyhow, my point was simple. If you're seeing negative splices (please reserve the term "lab splices" for laboratory ultrasonic splices on raw release print stock), you have a framing problem or a negative problem. There have been zero (or was it one?) major Hollywood releases with out-of-spec negative splice since The Passion of Christ in 2004. Maybe there's some sketchy indy or arthouse film that didn't rise to our notice, but I'd be fairly surprised. --jhawk --jhawk  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 10-13-2009 11:35 PM                     quote: John Hawkinson On a properly cut aperture a cinemascope negative splice should never be visible. End of story. Oh John, you of all people should know that just because you can't see the negative splices in no way means the aperture is cut properly. (Think about it.)  |  IP: Logged

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