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Author Topic: Digital Trailers - Pro's/Con's - Anyone Use Them?
Ray McKnight
Film Handler

Posts: 3
From: Kingston, WA USA
Registered: Jun 2009


 - posted 08-04-2009 06:07 PM      Profile for Ray McKnight   Email Ray McKnight   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hello all, this is my first post and wanted to take an informal "survey". Who is showing trailers digitally?

My take on digital vs 35mm trailers is this:
1) Digital are never out of frame
2) They are never out of focus (we hope...)
3) They don't get scratched
4) They can "easily" be changed, swap order, updated, skipped
5) Most importantly, you can find digitals of art house or "off broadway" features that otherwise you might not be able to find a 35mm trailer for.
6) If your ad material shows up without the trailer you want, you can fairly quickly work it up digitally on the fly.
7) Digital eliminates a big hassle in building prints.
8) This may open the door for your theater to offer in-house editing for promotional/advertising, why pay someone else $100/hr to do it for you??

CONS:
1) Studios have not yet embraced direct online access/download of trailers, so it's a crap shoot as to what aspect ratio and resolution you find.
2) Some of the best sources of trailers add watermarks, annoying at the least.
3) Other sources may not facilitate direct download, so you may need to be as good as Houdini to grab .FLV and other files thru the back door (think Apple's web site). The technical unsavvy won't be happy in this realm.
4) You absolutely MUST have a decent digital projector. That crappy 1000 lumen junk the ad agency provides will prove an embarasement.
5) Yes, it does take extra training and skill to seamlessly switch between the DLP and the 35mm.
6) Digital content downloaded from various web sites may not be all quite the same, some trailers have varying color saturation, brightness, contrast, and most commonly widely varying audio levels. This *can* be corrected successfully using software (i.e. Adobe Premiere, FinalCut Pro etc) but few theaters have the in house editing ability nor staff trained in using it. And yes, if you are a perfectionist and feel the need to "normalize" all your trailers, it does take time.
7) You may need a bit of skill to seemlessly mix files of varying resolution, aspect ratio and format to produce a good presentation.

Having said all that, with a decent DLP and a bit of training, your digital trailers can actually look BETTER than 35mm! Yes, it's possible, especially if you have a 2K or 4K DLP. If you don't need to edit anything, and manage to get them all in the same aspect ratio, say all of them at 720p HD and in scope, GREAT, you can actually produce a 4-trailer DVD in 5 minutes or less (not including the "burn time"). If you're a bit more sophisticated, you skip the DVD altogether and stream the content from a server directly to your scaler or projector.

So far, I've talked directly with the folks at Paramount that handle the digital prints. These are the folks that send you hard drives for those theaters capable of showing digital prints. They had not heard of anyone converting to all-digital trailers, and were thrilled and supportive. They think it's a great idea and probably the wave of the future. Although so far, have only been providing trailers on DVD. Single trailers on seoarate DVD's doesn't work well in the booth even if you have multiple players to queue up. So that adds a few extra steps, such as "ripping" the DVD to get the trailer on your HDD so you can then burn them all onto a single DVD with some sort of meaningful menu structure.

One of the best features I think is the ability to simply skip trailers on the fly. And for those shows where you don't have anyone in the theater yet, go ahead and play the digital trailers, if after 10 minutes and still no one has shown up, you're not committed to running the entire 35mm print. It gives you a lot more flexability.

But if your theater doesn't already have a decent DLP, I'd say the investment isn't justified. The combination of 5K-lumen or better with a long throw lens is a lot of money. If you have a decent DLP, then MOST of the trailers you show now in 35mm are probably available in at least 720p HD, which rivals 35mm, and in some cases, due to a little manipulation like they do in TV commercials, may actually be far more compelling to the audience with brighter, more vivid colors. This may disturb the purist, but I've actually had people stand up and cheer when they saw a really impressive 1080p HD trailer or promo shown at 8,000 lumens and 2K resolution.

Any thoughts?

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 08-04-2009 06:56 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If I am showing 35mm film, I would want to show 35mm trailers. If they can't provide me with a trailer, fuck 'em.

As for ads, I'd rather do digital ads because they are less of a headache and you don't have to worry about getting physical prints of the ads in. Even if the projectors for the ads are absolutely shit-tastic which they generally are, nobody cares about the ads except for those who advertise, and even they do not care (we ask for brighter slide projector bulbs but Screenvision literally does not care how they look onscreen). There will be an occasional customer who is concerned that the movie will be projected with the same low quality, but when it is revealed that a different projector will handle the feature they quickly become happy.

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 08-04-2009 07:02 PM      Profile for Mike Blakesley   Author's Homepage   Email Mike Blakesley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Ray - welcome to the forum.

You might want to consider renaming your thread to "Digital Ad Trailers" to avoid confusion. I thought you were talking about trailers for movies, not pre-show ads. (I got over it though)

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Ray McKnight
Film Handler

Posts: 3
From: Kingston, WA USA
Registered: Jun 2009


 - posted 08-04-2009 07:27 PM      Profile for Ray McKnight   Email Ray McKnight   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Sorry for any confusion.
I am referring primarily to trailers for features.
Of course thousands of screens show digital promo's and ads,
but so far that I can tell, unless they're showing an all-digital feature like the latest, greatest Real3D Pixar release, if the feature is 35mm so are the trailers.

In this same regard, can anyone comment on what success a small theater can expect from putting together a high end media server on their own? That is to avoid spending $20K on a Dolby or whatever whiz-bang brand-stamped box is the current rage. Is it really necessary to have all their proprietary software, scheduling widgets and file containers? What's wrong with building up a good multi-terabyte SCSI RAID server with GB ethernet and stream directly to your scaler or projector - will the studios refuse to release digital prints to you simply because you didn't buy a Dolby server, even if it has the same or better specs?

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 08-04-2009 07:56 PM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
A homebuilt server would never meet DCI specs and thus would never be able to show DCI content. It might be useful for material provided on DVD or videotape, but not for first-run feature films.

For a specialized unit with professional support that will actually do what you want in a reliable and maintainable manner, the Dolby server is not really overpriced.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 08-04-2009 10:36 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Would someone with the desire and patience please explain to Ray why his idea will not work in reality for the multitude of reasons that there are.

Oh and Ray, 720P sucks and is nowhere close to 35mm quality (particularly from a crappy little mini single chip "5k lumen" DLP projector). Please remember you are on a forum comprised of quality-oriented people.

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Ray McKnight
Film Handler

Posts: 3
From: Kingston, WA USA
Registered: Jun 2009


 - posted 08-04-2009 10:46 PM      Profile for Ray McKnight   Email Ray McKnight   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Brad, I wish you had not made the assumption that I was using a consumer grade single chip DLP. Try a Boxlight 80S3 which is 3-chip, 8,000 lumen, cinema calibrated color, and with lens well over $20K. Even 720p trailers actually look as good if not better than 35mm. I've had a few people with tears in their eyes with one 1080 demo I've shown. No it isn't a Sony 4K but damn close.

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John Hawkinson
Film God

Posts: 2273
From: Cambridge, MA, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 08-05-2009 04:17 AM      Profile for John Hawkinson   Email John Hawkinson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
We show trailers digitally in the extremely rare case where we can't get a 35mm trailer, typically for a repertory show. We had such case recently for Alfred Hitchcock's Rope (1948). (*)

We don't like to do it but it's better than nothing.

Generally speaking, availability of digital trailers in high resolution is a problem. I guess you can get 720p and 1080p versions of major new films, but beyond that, not so much.

Ray, if you think 1080P (or 720P) looks as good as 35mm film, then something is wrong with your 35mm equipment. Yes, 1080P won't get scratched and has that category of digital advantages. But film still has higher resolution and better color depth. In the hands of a good operator, film will look better, even over weeks of running.

As for building your own DCI server, I don't think the encryption system used is likely to permit unauthorized players; it would be far too easy for you to pirate the DCP/DCDM.

--jhawk

(*) -- and then ironically the 35mm print of Rope showed up
with a copy of the trailer attached to it!

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Martin McCaffery
Film God

Posts: 2481
From: Montgomery, AL
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 08-05-2009 08:54 AM      Profile for Martin McCaffery   Author's Homepage   Email Martin McCaffery   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
We don't do digital trailers, yet, but I have to agree that something is better than nothing. Getting 35mm trailers for art/indie films when you are not on the break can be difficult to near impossible. Depending on who the studio uses, all of the trailers get sent out the opening week. Many, if not most, to theatres which will never even show the film. Six weeks down the line when the film is available to us, no trailers available.

If I can get 1080i or 720p up on the screen to promote the film we will be showing (we never show trailers for movies we don't have booked) it's better than nothing.

And, quite frankly, many trailers look like crap anyway;>

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John Hawkinson
Film God

Posts: 2273
From: Cambridge, MA, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 08-05-2009 09:46 AM      Profile for John Hawkinson   Email John Hawkinson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Martin, has availability really been a problem for you? It used to be a problem for us, but in the past two years or so it has not been. Things have been much better.

It may be that we've just been doing a better job of proactively ordering trailers in advance of our need, but I don't think that is all of it.

--jhawk

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Martin McCaffery
Film God

Posts: 2481
From: Montgomery, AL
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 08-05-2009 10:21 AM      Profile for Martin McCaffery   Author's Homepage   Email Martin McCaffery   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: John Hawkinson
Martin, has availability really been a problem for you?
It has gotten better in the last few years, which may have something to do with Consolidated going out of business. Usually I can get a flat or a scope trailer, but not always both.

Right now I can't get either for Cheri.

I wish I could pro-actively order trailers. I order them right after I book the film (we're a calendar house, so that means about a month before we actually show the film). Many of the boutique distribs don't let you order material until you have a date booked. And being pretty low on the food chain, we don't get dates booked until they've done with all of the cities that make money.

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