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» Film-Tech Forum   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » CP650 rebooted mid-show for no particular reason, WTF? (Page 1)

 
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Author Topic: CP650 rebooted mid-show for no particular reason, WTF?
Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12496
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 12-05-2008 11:30 AM      Profile for Mike Blakesley   Author's Homepage   Email Mike Blakesley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
During our last showing of "Bolt," right toward the end of the movie, our CP650 decided to reboot. Nobody was near the machine when it happened -- we didn't have any power fluctuations or anything (and the CP is plugged into a power stabilizer anyway, so that should've stopped any blips) - but it ruined the end of the movie. Anybody had this happen and/or know why it happened?

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Jon P. Inghram
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 124
From: Wichita, KS USA
Registered: Jan 2007


 - posted 12-05-2008 12:04 PM      Profile for Jon P. Inghram   Email Jon P. Inghram   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Check the cooling fan. We had a CP650 do the same thing when the fan died and the unit started overheating. Dolby apparently figured adding fan speed and/or temperature monitoring wasn't important. [Confused]

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Mark J. Marshall
Film God

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From: New Castle, DE, USA
Registered: Aug 2002


 - posted 12-05-2008 12:13 PM      Profile for Mark J. Marshall     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Wow that sucks. I figured the ridiculously long boot time on those things would bite someone in the ass one day.

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Tony Bandiera Jr
Film God

Posts: 3021
From: Moreland Idaho
Registered: Apr 2004


 - posted 12-05-2008 02:20 PM      Profile for Tony Bandiera Jr   Email Tony Bandiera Jr   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Mike Blakesley
-- we didn't have any power fluctuations or anything (and the CP is plugged into a power stabilizer anyway, so that should've stopped any blips)
What do you mean by "power stabilizer" ? If it was anything other than a UPS with battery backup, it will NOT protect against a sag in voltage great enough to prevent a reboot.

What brand/model of UPS or stabilizer do you have?

If it was on a UPS, how old is the UPS? If it is over three years old or has been subjected to several outages the battery is most likely shot.

Otherwise, as Jon said, the next suspect is the cooling fan...or maybe a lot of dust buildup in the processor...both things worth looking into.

quote: Mark J. Marshall
Wow that sucks. I figured the ridiculously long boot time on those things would bite someone in the ass one day.

Me too. That's why ALL of my screening room installs have an APC 500va UPS for the processor and DCM monitors.

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12322
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 12-05-2008 05:38 PM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
So Tony...how often do you verify that the batteries are actually any good?

I've seen many a UPS system fail to work due to battery failure or to not hold more than a minute or two due to battery decay.

Steve

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John Wilson
Film God

Posts: 5436
From: Sydney, Australia.
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 12-05-2008 06:03 PM      Profile for John Wilson   Email John Wilson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Mike

Does your 650 take a long time to boot up? How long?

Last time we had that issue it was taking ages (+ 3 minutes) to boot and added to that it would re-boot several times during the show. Found out it was a faulty memory card. Replaced it and away it went in around 30 seconds.

[ 12-05-2008, 07:46 PM: Message edited by: John Wilson ]

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Tony Bandiera Jr
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From: Moreland Idaho
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 - posted 12-05-2008 07:03 PM      Profile for Tony Bandiera Jr   Email Tony Bandiera Jr   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Steve Guttag
So Tony...how often do you verify that the batteries are actually any good?

I do annual (at the minimum, usually every 6 mos.) service calls to check out video projector lamp times and filters, and check Dolby level and room levels. I will check the battery status lights on the UPS and I also unplug it for a minimum of three minutes to check that it actually works. If the battery is bad it will either fail to keep the equipment alive for that timeframe, or it will activate the replace battery light when reconnected.

I keep a few batteries on hand for that reason.

I have never had any downtime during shows because of it. (So far. [Smile] )

Speaking of which, I'll bet my battery at my room at UCI is due to be replaced. [Smile] (It has held for four years so far.)

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
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 - posted 12-05-2008 08:07 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have never been impressed with any of the UPS's I've tried. Belkin, APC, you name it... they all suck ass.

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Tony Bandiera Jr
Film God

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From: Moreland Idaho
Registered: Apr 2004


 - posted 12-05-2008 09:34 PM      Profile for Tony Bandiera Jr   Email Tony Bandiera Jr   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Joe Redifer
I have never been impressed with any of the UPS's I've tried. Belkin, APC, you name it... they all suck ass.
Is there anything you've ever used that DOESN'T suck ass? [Big Grin]

Belkin UPS do def suck though, (Know of several that failed rather violently.) I have had good luck with APC, and Tripp-Lite are also very good, but expensive.

I do think that ALL UPS do have one common thing that sucks: the batteries. Most have really cheap batteries, and I replace them with better quality ones from my (semi) local electronics supplier.

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12496
From: Forsyth, Montana
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 - posted 12-05-2008 11:22 PM      Profile for Mike Blakesley   Author's Homepage   Email Mike Blakesley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well after reading the replies, I looked at the machine. The cooling fan is working, has a small bit of dust around the grill but air seems to be flowing freely.

quote: Tony Bandiera Jr
What do you mean by "power stabilizer" ? If it was anything other than a UPS with battery backup, it will NOT protect against a sag in voltage great enough to prevent a reboot.
It is a UPS, an APC. I think it's about two years old. We got it right after we got the CP650. It's been through maybe two fairly long power outages but still keeps the machine running for at least 20 minutes.

We've had two more shows since the problem one and no more trouble, so maybe it was just some kind of weird fluke? I'm sure it's going to wait until the middle of the last reel on our opening night of "Twilight" to happen again...

quote: John Wilson
Does your 650 take a long time to boot up? How long?
It has always taken exactly one minute to boot - that hasn't changed.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

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From: Bountiful, Utah
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 12-06-2008 04:01 AM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Without actually getting my laptop out to look I believe that you have ver.2.3.4.3 firmware in your 650 which has been pretty stable firmware so you may have something else going on in there. There are newer versions of the firmware that are also very stable but don't offer you any real operational advantages. Be sure the power cord is firmly seated and that the UPS is actually functioning properly. I've learned that with UPS's it is a very good idea to run them once a month... let the batteries run down a ways and then let them re-charge as this helps keep the batteries in top shape. They use sealed lead acid batteries which in themselves can be somewhat finicky and shelf life which is what you might consider them under as used in a UPS is generally about two to three years. If the batteries are bad it's sometimes less expensive to just buy a new UPS as the batteries can sometimes set you back as much as a hundred bucks.

Mark

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

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From: Toronto Ontario Canada
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 - posted 12-06-2008 10:20 AM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
And in some locations used battery dispossal is an issue

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Mark Gulbrandsen
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From: Bountiful, Utah
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 - posted 12-06-2008 10:27 AM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Gordon McLeod
And in some locations used battery dispossal is an issue



Not really in the States where most munincipalities are equipped for recycling used batteries among other things...

Mark

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12322
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 12-06-2008 11:46 AM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Most UPSs actually switch the power from line to battery in a power failure...this brings about a relay contact that can be either faulty or a contact not properly made.

In fact, I have a facility where the Crestron brain and a Media Matrix plugged into an APC rack mount UPS...after about 3 years of service, when there was a power failure at the facility, those two devices (Media Matrix and Crestron) clearly responded as if they were rebooted though the Media Matrix might not have booted up properly (note, the facility went on line in 2003 so that is the era of the equipment).

The A/V contractor in-charge of this equipment refused to believe it was the APC UPS since the batteries registered as good and they could unplug the APC and it performed properly. I countered with..."you have two otherwise unrelated devices having problems and the only commonality is the UPS that they both plug into." Note too, there are three other Crestron brains and one other Media Matrix on site, also plugged into APCs (different actual units) and they did not suffer the problem. It was way too much of a coincidence that the two devices plugged into this common box would be the subject of bizzar reboot problems.

So, on my insistance, and against the A/V contractor's recommendation, they plugged the Media Matrix and the Crestron into a mere Surge Suppressor/line conditioner (Tripplite LCR-2400)...zero problems with either box. The UPS was thrown in the trash and was replaced with a brand new unit and there have been zero problems since.

The better kind of UPS are the ones that generate their own sine-wave power and ALWAYS have the plugged in devices on UPS power. Think of the batteries as "buffers." They are always being filled while the unit is plugged in...if the power is lost, the batteries will then drain. However, the equipment that is plugged in is unaware of any power change. There is no transition time and the power is always clean.

Steve

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Mark Gulbrandsen
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From: Bountiful, Utah
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 12-06-2008 12:48 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Steve Guttag
this brings about a relay contact that can be either faulty or a contact not properly made.


All the UPS's I know of including APC switch from AC to battery electronically... relays are way too slow for the job as it has to happen instantainously. There are however relays in some UPS's that perform other functions, possibly in the charge circuits, although none of the units I have installed or have worked with have any.

Mark

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