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Author Topic: Anybody else have out of frame "attached" previews on The Rocker Justin Hamaker Film God Posts: 2253 From: Lakeport, CA USA Registered: Jan 2004 posted 08-20-2008 01:08 AM                        Babylon A.D. was attached at the depot and it was completely out of frame. They got it wrong on both sides of the splice and the net result was also out of frame.  |  IP: Logged Joe Redifer You need a beating today Posts: 12859 From: Denver, Colorado Registered: May 99 posted 08-20-2008 01:25 AM                        I think mine was one perf out of frame on the trailer side. What is the point of attached trailers? Just include 'em in the can! I hate dealing with trailers in general, but attached ones are really annoying.  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 08-20-2008 02:21 AM                     Interesting. Mine was printed with the feature, not attached...  |  IP: Logged Joe Redifer You need a beating today Posts: 12859 From: Denver, Colorado Registered: May 99 posted 08-20-2008 02:44 AM                        Technically that's still an attached trailer and even more annoying.  |  IP: Logged Kenneth Wuepper Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1026 From: Saginaw, MI, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 08-20-2008 06:15 AM                     I believe that the first run exhibitor contract requires the film to be screened "in its entirety". That would mean everything that is included between the leaders. I have heard of theaters being charged for deleting the credits at the end to reduce running time. The "attached trailer" is part of the show as described by the film company and should be exhibited in full under the contract. KEN  |  IP: Logged Frank Angel Film God Posts: 5305 From: Brooklyn NY USA Registered: Dec 1999 posted 08-20-2008 06:44 AM                        Oh sure....if you want to be a goody-two shoes. SNIP  |  IP: Logged Joe Redifer You need a beating today Posts: 12859 From: Denver, Colorado Registered: May 99 posted 08-20-2008 08:13 AM                        Kenneth, what if a theater cuts green bands off of trailers? I feel they should get called out for violating this contract.  |  IP: Logged John Hawkinson Film God Posts: 2273 From: Cambridge, MA, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 08-20-2008 10:13 AM                     Ken, Every time this sort of thing comes up, there is a lot of confusion. I don't think you will be able to find any contractual language that definitively supports the interpretation that "everything between the leaders" must be exhibited. Any such claim is speculation, and I think it is not born out in a practical sense. Looking at, e.g., Paramount's MLA, they require that "Exhibitor shall exhibit the Title, without alteration or intermission." This paragraph immediately follows a paragraph granting license to exhibit "any and all trailers." It suggests to me, though not definitively, that trailers are not part of the Title. (Of course, most trailers wouldn't be. Since most trailers are not attached.) In the front matter, some definitions include "a feature-length film print (`Print,' which reference shall be deemed to include trailer prints) of the individual motion picture (`Title')." It is notable to me that the requirement is to exhibit the Title, not the Print. If the requirement were to include attached trailers, I would expect it would say "the Print." As a practical matter, my understanding is that studios have determined that attached trailers are much more likely to be programmed by theatres, and that is why they attach them. Of course, some chains may have particular contractual arrangements involving trailer programming. But presumably those folks know all about them Also, license of exhibition is subject to not only the MLA, but also the terms of the Booking Confirmation. I don't see first-run Booking Confirmations so I don't know if they have language in them about attached trailers, but I would be mildly surprised. --jhawk  |  IP: Logged Mark J. Marshall Film God Posts: 3188 From: New Castle, DE, USA Registered: Aug 2002 posted 08-20-2008 10:37 AM                    I've seen notes in the cans that specifically allow theaters to cut the trailers to insert their Feature Presentation snipe in between the trailer and the feature. I believe I've even seen this stipulation on Disney features that have cartoons attached to the heads of features, although I don't remember us ever doing that with a cartoon. I think jhawk is right on why the studios put them there. And I think Joe is right that they're annoying. Particularly on Fox prints where the tail of the trailer typically runs smack up against the Fox logo leaving practically no room to cut it at all, and usually means the DTS unit starts playing the Fox fanfare for a few seconds when the theater snipe hits the screen. If studios could find a happy medium between Fox's method and Warner Brothers' method of two miles of black between the trailer and the feature, that would be awesome. I've had trailers spliced onto prints by someone who I guess was either at the depot or the lab, and I've had them occasionally out of frame. That's not surprising since those guys don't even know how to assemble reels correctly half of the time. And I've had PRINTED on trailers go out of frame. I actually had two Harry Potter GOF prints do that on me.  |  IP: Logged Joe Elliott Master Film Handler Posts: 497 From: Port Orange, Fl USA Registered: Oct 2006 posted 08-20-2008 12:01 PM                     I have had them out of frame more often than in frame. We leave the print preview on the leader, and add 2 more after it, along with our normal company stuff. On the Rocker the leader was attached to the preview, and since we snip it after the first preview to add in our stuff, I just clipped out their splice, because it was most likely wrong. It's sad, because they work with a lot more film than we do, and they can't get it right. I guess it's like breakdown. It's the next guys problem.  |  IP: Logged Chris Slycord Film God Posts: 2986 From: 퍼항시, 경상푹도, South Korea Registered: Mar 2007 posted 08-20-2008 12:51 PM                     quote: Joe Elliott It's sad, because they work with a lot more film than we do, and they can't get it right. Don't you realize that the reason this happens to them and less often to you is exactly the fact that they "work with a lot more film"? Higher volume of film -> Higher volume of mistakes  |  IP: Logged Darryl Spicer Film God Posts: 3250 From: Lexington, KY, USA Registered: Dec 2000 posted 08-20-2008 12:56 PM                    There is no requirement in a contract that says that you are required to screen our print before showing it to the public. This decision is left to individual theatres. When it comes to attached trailers that are spliced in, it is always better to check them for being in frame and cut out and re-make a new splice. What I like to do with trailers is go in release date order, starting with the most recent release being the first trailer to play. So, in the case of The Rocker, the attached trailer (which in our case was printed on not spliced in) is moved first in the order since it opens in a week and a half. If the attached is more than three months away in it's release, then I normally leave it attached. We usually do not keep films around longer than three months.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 08-20-2008 01:26 PM                     A lot of theaters say if the attached opens in 3 weeks or less it doesn't get played because some booths don't have the labor capability to be changing trailers each week. The studios already screw the theaters over with the "day prior" print deliveries, forcing most theaters to "double up" on projection staff on buildup days wasting payroll unnecessarily...hence if the attached opens "too soon", it gets dumped into the trash can. I tend to find in those situations the best case senario is most often what Darryl listed above in that yeah it gets played, but not in the "prime" spot that the studio wants. Oh fucking well!  |  IP: Logged Mike Blakesley Film God Posts: 12767 From: Forsyth, Montana Registered: Jun 99 posted 08-20-2008 01:28 PM                        I've never had an attached trailer OR a printed-on trailer be out of frame. Maybe I've just been lucky. This has all been rehashed before as mentioned. You are required to play the feature film and nothing else, except in some of those situations where there is a short feature included. Disney and Pixar (beginning last year) started allowing you to cut off the attached trailer, but you still have to play the short+feature as one unit.  |  IP: Logged Scott Norwood Film God Posts: 8146 From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 08-20-2008 01:39 PM                        I'd say that about 3/4 of the spliced-on trailers that I see are out of frame (just as if the cuts had been made at random). I always re-make these splices, as they are always poorly made, with nasty, gooey tape and often a gap which will hinge and cause a pop in the soundtrack. Worse, the lab/depot people often cut into the fade-in of the studio logo and/or cut off the fadeout at the end of the trailer. Agreed with Darryl--trailers should play in either release-date order (which makes logical sense) or reverse-release-date order (so that the films that are opening soonest get promoted even to those who arrive late). If the theatre does not play films on their national opening dates, then substitute "booking date" for "release date." I also feel strongly that only trailers for confirmed bookings for that particular theatre should be shown. There is no need to promote the competition or confuse customers.  |  IP: Logged

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