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Author Topic: Kinoton FP20 lubrication Jeff Else Expert Film Handler Posts: 125 From: Detroit, MI, USA Registered: Nov 2006 posted 08-04-2008 04:08 PM                     what is the proper product to use to lubricate the chains and external gears in the back of an FP20? some sort of grease i assume...  |  IP: Logged Robert Minichino Master Film Handler Posts: 350 From: Haskell, NJ, USA Registered: Dec 2005 posted 08-04-2008 04:29 PM                        I use a light oil on the chains and Super Lube grease on the shutter gear.  |  IP: Logged Rob J. Buskop Expert Film Handler Posts: 111 From: Rotterdam, the Netherlands Registered: Aug 2005 posted 08-07-2008 05:04 PM                     Never grease!!!! Official lube is with car rear axle differential oil. The somewhat characteristically smelly viscous oil that you smell when visiting a car scrapyard.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 08-07-2008 08:58 PM                     The offical lubricant for the chains, as per Kinoton, is Esso Universal Oil and this is supplied with all new projectors (yes it still has "Esso", right on the cans). It is to be reapplied every 3 months. It is a very light-weight oil. You'll get more life (reduced time between reapplication) by using a synthetic oil like LaVezzi's intermittent oil. It clings real well and it keeps the links moving freely. Steve  |  IP: Logged Rob J. Buskop Expert Film Handler Posts: 111 From: Rotterdam, the Netherlands Registered: Aug 2005 posted 08-08-2008 11:22 AM                     I'm sorry to have to contradict the information above. The gear train has to be lubed with hypoid oil of the type I described earlier. Apart from having intimate knowledge of the FP-20, as the designer was a personal friend of mine, I also have the original lube instruction card issued by Philips on the wall in my projection room. Kinoton instructions do not apply because it was Philips who designed and marketed the FP-20. Not Kinoton. The chains are to be lubricated with Esso handy oil. (A general purpose light oil). Any other make of similar product is fine. But after all this is said, I'm sure you will not ruin your mechanism if you would use a lighter weight oil on the gear. But it's not what Philips and the designer prescribed.. Another thing that's sometimes overlooked is the NECESSITY to remove the "omega" spring, that takes care of the pressure skate, on a regular basis. The pivot points of this spring and the pins on which it moves have to be cleaned at regular intervals and lubed with a light oil. Failing to do so will result in friction on the pivot points of the spring. This will cause you to increase the tension in order to keep a steady picture. After this it will happen that with the passing of a splice, the friction in the spring pivots will prevent it to come back to it's original position and the picture will start to be unsteady. Hereafter you increase the tension again and with the next splice the whole process starts all over again. And so on... So: Screw the gate tension down completely, and take the spring off. Do the cleaning and lubricating so that everything has minimal friction. Remember that the pivot points are under a load and it's inherent to the construction that the above mentioned preventive maintenance is performed once in a while. Do you also know that the proper tension of the drive belt should be extremely slack. And I mean really very, very loose. This is for absorption of the intermittent load and will make the projector much quieter. Best of luck with your fine machine! Rob.  |  IP: Logged Jeff Else Expert Film Handler Posts: 125 From: Detroit, MI, USA Registered: Nov 2006 posted 08-09-2008 10:07 PM                     wow, thank you for the valuable info. i will get to work!  |  IP: Logged Gerard Bierling Film Handler Posts: 9 From: Roden The Netherlands Registered: Jul 2008 posted 08-13-2008 12:39 PM                     Hello Rob, long time no see. I would go one step further then the above tip of Rob. Remove the two rollers and their holder near the intermittent sprocket. Remove the skateholder and clean and lubricate the shaft. If the skateholder does not turn light then you got the same problem Rob discribed above. Gerard  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 08-13-2008 02:57 PM                     quote: Steve Guttag yes it still has "Esso", right on the cans Yep and they have been gone for years... used to be a division of Standard Oil. Nothing like a 40 year old can of ESSO Handy Oil to loosen things up .  |  IP: Logged Jeff Else Expert Film Handler Posts: 125 From: Detroit, MI, USA Registered: Nov 2006 posted 08-18-2008 09:09 PM                     in order to remove the omega spring, do i have to remove the skate tension arm? i can't seem to see a way to do it otherwhise. how do i do it?  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 08-18-2008 10:00 PM                     quote: Rob J. Buskop I'm sorry to have to contradict the information above. quote: Rob J. Buskop I also have the original lube instruction card issued by Philips on the wall in my projection room. Ron, Will all due respect to that original lube card you have from the 1960's and especially the original designer whom today would certainly have agreed with Steve G., I don't think that in the modern day and age of synthetics you have much room for contradiction at all. Had that designer had access then to today's Synthetics he would have most certainly specified them!It's obvious that you are not familiar at all with LaVezzi synthetic oil or other synthetic oils nor modern synthetic grease such as Super Lube and several others. Investigation of them by any intelligent soul would soon reveal an incredibly superior lubricant for many simple reasons. I have used LaVezzi Oil in FP-20 intermittents for close to two decades and have yet to have one fail or even become noisy, in fact after a month or so running the stuff they normally become quieter! LaVezzi oil is also brutally used in the Christie Ultramittent and I've torn down 15+ year old Ultramittents that have never seen any oil change and that show basically no wear to the star, cam, or cam pin... these smaller "Simplex sized" parts take a lot more beating then the larger star and cam used in the FP-20!! Aside from the fact that synthetics do not evaporate they also do not become acedic over time. Until you have come into the modern age and are using similar products and gaining ALOT longer running life out of just about all existing projectors as I have criticizing them is useless. But then again some love to work on the machines themselves... some manufacturers and even dealers like to sell parts. Thats life. Mark  |  IP: Logged Rob J. Buskop Expert Film Handler Posts: 111 From: Rotterdam, the Netherlands Registered: Aug 2005 posted 08-24-2008 08:28 AM                     There has been a misunderstanding. I have to apologise for the remark "the above is not correct". Actually I was concentrating on the best lubing method for the gears (hypoid oil) , whilst the "above" message was relating to the lubrication of the chains.... My brain was stalled, so sorry for that remark. Chains advice was correct: light oil, like the old Esso handy oil. Synthetic? Fine. But as far as intermittent oil is concerned, I have no objection to synthetics nor did I discard this idea in any way. It was not touched upon by me. I'm in full agreement that some proper viscosity synthetic oils will work perfectly. However the specs require Shell Tellus 37 which is readily available and has worked perfectly for some 50 years now. It's the stuff that is used here and personally I would'nt see a reason to start betting on another product, although it might work well. The Tellus oils were specifically formulated for use in small gear boxes (like in lathes) and has all the specifications which that purpose requires. Like special anti-foam characteristics and other additives that make it what it was designed for.  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 08-24-2008 09:47 AM                     I understand Bob... My basis for how well LaVezzi oil works is how little wear the parts inside 15+ year old Ultramittent can look... that same 5 ounce dose of LaVezzi Oil oil having been in there those entire 15 years. They do mix in an additive to the synthetic that supposedly permeates the metal a molecule or two in depth and this is supposed to further reduce friction... probably why movements I've put the stuff in actually quiet down over time. All I can say is that the stuff works amazingly well. Mark  |  IP: Logged Christian Appelt Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 505 From: Frankfurt, Germany Registered: Dec 2001 posted 08-24-2008 09:50 AM                     quote: Mark Gulbrandsen Yep and they have been gone for years... used to be a division of Standard Oil. Nothing like a 40 year old can of ESSO Handy Oil to loosen things up My bicycle likes this: Esso Universal Oil ES 809 W But your 40+ yrs old can looks much better!  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 08-24-2008 11:40 AM                     Shell Tellus is good stuff. I have no problem using it. I would be interested in a controlled study of a synthetic like LaVezzi oil going head-to-head with it. The Shell oil does break down, as all natural oils do. Steve  |  IP: Logged Mitchell Dvoskin Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1869 From: West Milford, NJ, USA Registered: Jan 2001 posted 08-29-2008 12:18 PM                     Ok, a stupid question, but how do you oil the chain so that all the links get oil without making a huge mess?  |  IP: Logged

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