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Author Topic: What's up with prints from India?? Joe Redifer You need a beating today Posts: 12859 From: Denver, Colorado Registered: May 99 posted 07-13-2008 02:16 AM                        We tend to play a lot of prints from India for one reason or another and I have noticed a few things: -They do not believe in reels over there in India. -Sometimes they don't even believe in cores... or keeping the heads and tails! -They are always musicals or at the very least have a bunch of songs with everyone dancing. This is mandatory. -They are always way too long and have an intermission. -They often use subtitles to translate English-speaking characters to English (complete with different phrasing). -They are always scope (this is the only thing I approve of). My question is this: Why do they hate reels so much... and cores? I get the impression that they really don't care much about presentation over there. Also, why must they keep renting our theater? Why can't they build their own "Theatre India" or something? They are always trying to get us to lower our prices and demanding more showtimes and screens. We should raise the prices having to deal with core-less prints.  |  IP: Logged Stan Gunn Expert Film Handler Posts: 176 From: Clematis, in the hills near Melbourne Australia Registered: Aug 2000 posted 07-13-2008 05:09 AM                        Joe,I also have shown many Bollywood films, and what you say is the norm for all Bollywood films, this is the way they like them. Also the format is based around the taboos of their faiths. The films have a very short screening life, and I suppose this shows up in the way they are treated. A new print from the lab does have heads and tails comes in cans but mainly without cores. AND as you say are very long, and the organizers always want you to pay them to show their films. Stan  |  IP: Logged Christian Appelt Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 505 From: Frankfurt, Germany Registered: Dec 2001 posted 07-13-2008 01:14 PM                     Shipping on cores instead of reels is quite common outside the US. I never saw anything but US studio prints and of course 70mm shipped on spools (except those 2x6000ft. Italian style "Cinebox" cases that take two plastic spools). When I had to handle lots of prints from India years ago, I noticed that almost every print (not Bollywood, but mainly arthouse and classic films) was dripping from oil. Oil all over the prints, taking away so much light that some older b&w films looked like flickering silents printed too dark. During a festival, I asked an older director why there was so much oil on these prints. He answered that many theatres had metal reels so bent and damaged that the only way to keep (acetate) prints from tearing was to smear oil on the side of the film before it was put on 2000ft reels. This procedure kept the film edge from sticking to the bent reel flange, but of course after one or two shows the oil was all over the image area. First I thought he was making fun of me, but later a DP from India said it was true. Luckily, that practice seems to have stopped with the introcuction of Polyester stock.  |  IP: Logged Frank Angel Film God Posts: 5305 From: Brooklyn NY USA Registered: Dec 1999 posted 07-13-2008 02:15 PM                        It is only in the US that we seem to not be able to handle film that comes in on cores. What's the big deal? It just takes a split reel and you are in business. OK, given the way we treat prints here, it's probably a good thing we don't ship prints on cores to let the underpaid splice monkeys have at them; they can barely handle prints on reels. Shipping on cores would probably quadruple the "Hey You Suck" thread. Get with the culture, Joe -- the musical numbers in Bollywood films, as well as the intermissions are the traditional way Indian films are made and have been for decades. That audience EXPECTS to see films produced with those traditional, cultural elements. You leave them out of a Bollywood movie and you would have very unhappy audiences, not exactly what a producer is going for. It would be like the Met producing an opera and leaving out the arias. And let's not forget, the Bollywood producer is not making his movie to please the western projectionist or the American theatre personnel. Hey, I never complain when a distributor, Bollywood or otherwise, wants to four-wall my theatre -- sure, he can haggle the rental price all he wants, but I know in the end we get exactly the price we want and it is found money -- we smile all the way to the bank. You won't hear our accountant (or concessions manager) whining that they've got an intermission in their film or wishing they would go build their own theatre instead of renting ours. [ 07-13-2008, 03:17 PM: Message edited by: Frank Angel ]  |  IP: Logged Mike Olpin Chop Chop! Posts: 1852 From: Dallas, TX Registered: Jan 2002 posted 07-13-2008 02:26 PM                     I can handle cores fine. But many bollywood movies arrive as a slop of film in a can, usually with no core. Sometimes I'll see a print come in with a small core, but its clear that the reel had been broken down onto a bigger core at the last theatre. That theatre then.. shall we say "retrieved".. their core.  |  IP: Logged Tim Asten Film Handler Posts: 98 From: Brighton, United Kingdom Registered: Nov 2006 posted 07-13-2008 03:14 PM                     Here in the UK, or at least in our cinema, Bollywood films are nearly always brand new, come on cores, always head out and with each reel containing two reels spliced together. e.g head leader: start part one, tale leader: finish part two. Tim.  |  IP: Logged Joe Redifer You need a beating today Posts: 12859 From: Denver, Colorado Registered: May 99 posted 07-13-2008 05:29 PM                        I can load up a reel without a core just fine by using one of my cores and putting a bunch of junk film around it. Breaking down without a core is impossible. I cannot punch the core out because the Strong platter/MUT combination wraps so damn tight even when no backtension is applied to the freespinning deck (which is why I never felt the need to install "tension clutches"). It all seems to "third world" to me. Instead I use the tiny trailer cores. I hope this pisses someone in India off because they have pissed me off by shipping without cores which are the only ones I can afford to lose. The prints from the Bollywood region always come on cores and are always new. Also, it doesn't say much for India's culture if they expect the same crap in every single movie without fail. I was tempted to put a trailer for Brick Lane on one of them.  |  IP: Logged Martin McCaffery Film God Posts: 2481 From: Montgomery, AL Registered: Jun 99 posted 07-13-2008 09:09 PM                        It's been about 25 years since I ran Bollywood films, and the situation was the same as Joe describes. Of course, I also ran films from other countries that were not released in the US and the print condition could be the same as the Bollywood film. Some places do have their own theatres. Last time I was in the DC area I discovered Loehman's Plaza in Falls Church is still open (though not advertised) and showing Bollywood movies. As for Bollywood movies themselves, they are just formula films cranked out by the hundreds each year. They say as much about India's culture as Ma and Pa Kettle or Andy Hardy Movies say about the US or Kung Fu movies say about Hong Kong. Just disposable pop crap, that occasionally transcends the form. India has its art films, even if Satjiyat Ray is dead. They are about as popular in India as American art films here. That's why you rarely see them. 90% of everything is crap, India just cranks out a greater volume than any other place in the world.  |  IP: Logged John Hawkinson Film God Posts: 2273 From: Cambridge, MA, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 07-13-2008 09:31 PM                     Jesus, Joe. Just order some cores and be done with it. Some people on EBay keep selling hundreds of 2" cores, if you're feeling El Cheapo. And yes, there's nothing wrong with adding a coreless print surcharge... --jhawk  |  IP: Logged Joe Redifer You need a beating today Posts: 12859 From: Denver, Colorado Registered: May 99 posted 07-13-2008 10:22 PM                        You seem to think that if I order something, I'll get it. Think again. It is very rare and often takes much arguing with the owners. It took over 3 months just to get a friggin' split reel. We are already starting to charge them a "late print" surcharge since they don't seem to like giving us the print until a couple of hours before showtime. Again, the real Bollywood people tend to give us their prints the day before... on cores. It's not my fault India is a 3rd world country and cannot afford reels or cores.  |  IP: Logged Bill Enos Film God Posts: 2081 From: Richmond, Virginia, USA Registered: Apr 2000 posted 07-13-2008 10:22 PM                     I usually get India films with no heads, no tail, no cores dumped in the cans. I just stick a core in the middle and put on a split reel, if it bumps and bangs when I spool it off who cares? If the jerks who own it don't care why should I? When it's done I knock the cores out with a small wooden mallet. No point in leaving them in as John suggests because the next theatre will not put them back---I've left cores in and had the films play here again in a couple weeks and they came back with out the cores. Also the Indian business man who brings the films in says I shouldn't leave the cores in just on principle.  |  IP: Logged Joe Redifer You need a beating today Posts: 12859 From: Denver, Colorado Registered: May 99 posted 07-13-2008 10:24 PM                        I have an incredibly hard time knocking them out since I use STRONG equipment and that stuff wraps tighter than a virgin pussy.  |  IP: Logged John Hawkinson Film God Posts: 2273 From: Cambridge, MA, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 07-13-2008 10:26 PM                     Nah, Joe, I think you could order some cores instead of getting lunch one day, and the stress relief would be worth spending the money out of your own pocket I'm sorry, Bill, I think it's unequivocally Film Done Wrong to knock out cores. Just because some people do the wrong thing doesn't mean the rest of us should. As projectionists, we should be striving to maintain the best possible standards, even in the face of adversity. It is sad to me that you disagree. --jhawk  |  IP: Logged Joe Redifer You need a beating today Posts: 12859 From: Denver, Colorado Registered: May 99 posted 07-13-2008 10:54 PM                        I don't pay for my lunch, I steal it from homeless people. Maybe I could steal enough change from them as well?  |  IP: Logged John Hawkinson Film God Posts: 2273 From: Cambridge, MA, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 07-13-2008 10:56 PM                     Not necessary, Joe. Just ask them for the cores directly. They'll be happy to oblige. If they claim to not know what you're talking about, that's their subtle way of saying you're not asking them politely enough. In my experience homeless people often have difficulty appreciating sarcasm, unlike the rest of us. --jhawk  |  IP: Logged

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