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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Pay-out or brain wrap fail-safe (Page 1)

 
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Author Topic: Pay-out or brain wrap fail-safe
Justin Hamaker
Film God

Posts: 2253
From: Lakeport, CA USA
Registered: Jan 2004


 - posted 06-20-2008 04:59 PM      Profile for Justin Hamaker   Author's Homepage   Email Justin Hamaker   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
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Are these fail-safe devices still available? I looked up AVASK Inc and while it comes up with the same address as on the unit, when I called the number, it was for a different company.

I want to find one for our drive-in projector.

If I happen to find one, how difficult are they to install? We have a Christie 4K lamphouse (I don't know the exact model) with a Simplex XL projector.

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 06-20-2008 05:13 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Lamphouse and projector are irrelevant. What this does is cut power to the platter causing the take-up to fail and the failsafes on the projector to drop. I don't see why you couldn't install Strong's tension-safe device on your "Drive-in" platter (is that seriously the brand name of the thing?) as it is definitely a better design than that thing in your picture, despite my hatred for most things Strong. It mounts at the very top of the unit. There might be some funky wire splicing involved.

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 06-20-2008 05:20 PM      Profile for Mike Blakesley   Author's Homepage   Email Mike Blakesley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Joe Redifer
on your "Drive-in" platter (is that seriously the brand name of the thing?)
There really was (or maybe is?) a company called "Drive-In Theatre Manufacturing Company" that made platters. Salespeople and techs would abbreviate it "DITMCO" and pronouce it "dit-m'co."

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 06-20-2008 05:24 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Waitaminute. For some reason when I think "Drive-in" I think "Speco". Any relation?

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Justin Hamaker
Film God

Posts: 2253
From: Lakeport, CA USA
Registered: Jan 2004


 - posted 06-20-2008 06:20 PM      Profile for Justin Hamaker   Author's Homepage   Email Justin Hamaker   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
This isn't a brand thing, it's just that I have these fail-safes on the 5 projectors at my indoor and since it's the same brand of platter, I just felt it best to stick with what we know.

Joe, from your post, I don't think you know how these fail-safes work. They replace the bottom roller on the pay-out side of the platter. When the film gets pulled tight - like when you have a brain wrap, they cause the projector to shut down so that it doesn't ruin the film or pull the guidance rollers out of alignment or anything else bad.

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David Zylstra
Master Film Handler

Posts: 432
From: Novi, MI, USA
Registered: Mar 2007


 - posted 06-20-2008 06:53 PM      Profile for David Zylstra   Email David Zylstra   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I recall a little about this company - they had a niche market to retrofit platters with wrap detectors when polyester film had static issues. The biggest thing I remember is the reps at one ShowEast dressed up in drag as "Poly" and "Ester", another year I think they were the ones with headbands made of film (or was that the company that had a mechanism to cut the film if a wrap was detected?).

I have no clue if they are still in business, but many current wrap detectors should be adaptable to any platter if the geometry is correct. If you have Christie platters they may have a retrofit kit for theirs.

I do recall a unit that cut the platter power, but I don't remember which one it was.

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James Westbrook
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1133
From: Lubbock, Texas, Usa
Registered: Mar 2006


 - posted 06-20-2008 06:55 PM      Profile for James Westbrook   Email James Westbrook   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The Drive-In Manufacturing Company changed it's name to SPECO in the 80s. SPECO is supposed to be an acronym, but I forget what it's supposed to mean.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 06-20-2008 07:27 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
I want to say it was Systems and Products Engineering COmpany, but that may be wrong.

I have used the failsafe that Justin is showing. It mounts directly in place of the lower payout roller, but it only gives you two wires. You have to wire it into your failsafe. I believe Strong's payout is designed to wire right into the platter to cut power. I don't know, I wasn't impressed with either. Besides, who in the hell needs wrap detectors anyway??? [Razz]

A much better solution is Neumade's wrap detector here. It actually givs that lower roller some travel, as it can move up and down. This way when a wrap starts and pulls tight, the "elevator" can pull up as the projector is winding down to a stop without causing further damage.

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Louis Bornwasser
Film God

Posts: 4441
From: prospect ky usa
Registered: Mar 2005


 - posted 06-20-2008 08:50 PM      Profile for Louis Bornwasser   Author's Homepage   Email Louis Bornwasser   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
WE supply & continue to supply that wrap detector for National Amusements & others. On a Christie AW-3, it is wired to lift the center tap of the low voltage transformer, which cuts the power to the LED's. This effectively turns the platter off, right now. Louis

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Tim Reed
Better Projection Pays

Posts: 5246
From: Northampton, PA
Registered: Sep 1999


 - posted 06-20-2008 09:12 PM      Profile for Tim Reed   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
As Brad said, SPECO is Systems and Products Engineering Company (formerly Drive-In Theatre Mfg. Co., or DITMCO). I still call their platters "Drive-In" platters.

The tension switch will work how ever you hook it up. It's easiest to do as Louis mentioned (thereby reducing wire runs). Just series it with the CT on the Christie transformer. FWIW, I learned that from Louis to begin with, years ago. I also loved the little AVASK units - it's easy to adjust the triggering tension by changing the springs (included).

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004


 - posted 06-20-2008 09:12 PM      Profile for Monte L Fullmer   Email Monte L Fullmer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Brad Miller
I believe Strong's payout is designed to wire right into the platter to cut power. I don't know, I wasn't impressed with either. Besides, who in the hell needs wrap detectors anyway???

I know of a small 4plex with A/AP3 units with these wrap detector units replacing the two lower rollers on the tower and tied in series with the leads from the machine drop failsafe.

And I do agree: not to impressed with these units.

This small plex needed these detectors since the owner is very anal on any problems and were sold by a local dealer to have these installed feeling that this what the owner needed even though the booth personnel did receive proper training in presentatin factors and maintenance procedures.

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 06-21-2008 01:41 AM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes, the Strongs cut power to the platter which causes the take-up to stop and the failsafes to drop. In one case you get film on the floor, in the other you have to run a wire from the platter to the projector. It's a lose/lose situation, I guess. The Strongs can at least be locked in the OPEN position.

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Charles Greenlee
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 801
From: Savannah, Ga, U.S.
Registered: Jun 2006


 - posted 06-21-2008 04:05 AM      Profile for Charles Greenlee   Author's Homepage   Email Charles Greenlee   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hmm, those Neumade platters look an aweful like redressed Strong platters. Hopefully Strong platters that have had their design flaws fixed?

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Eric Burrel
Film Handler

Posts: 10
From: Chicago, IL, USA
Registered: Jul 2008


 - posted 07-15-2008 10:57 PM      Profile for Eric Burrel   Email Eric Burrel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Having worked with the Neumade, Strong, and Christie platters, I can say the Neumades are not redressed Strongs, but more like the Christies. I personally like them better than the latest AW3s. The Neumade fail safes work very well especially in those cases of a sudden increase in tension from tape residue or someone taping the tail of a print and not removing it. [Mad]

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Michael Hossen
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 136
From: Perth, Australia
Registered: Apr 2007


 - posted 07-16-2008 11:34 AM      Profile for Michael Hossen   Author's Homepage   Email Michael Hossen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Our Cinemecanica platters have this as standard, I'm sure.

For example, when a brain wrap occurs the tension of the film causes the bottom roller on the payout side of the platter to lift up, which stops the projector. Am I on the right track? By the way, it works well.

Also, when the original poster said "Drive-in" projector I assumed he meant the projector at his drive-in cinema.

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