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Author Topic: Poorly maintained Simplex XL seems to have oil leaks everywhere. Where do I start? Justin Hamaker Film God Posts: 2253 From: Lakeport, CA USA Registered: Jan 2004 posted 05-13-2008 03:02 PM                        I have a Simplex XL at our drive-in which has been rather poorly maintained over the years (this is only my third season working with it). Last night I fixed a couple problem such as the film gate closing too tight (same adjustment screw as I mentioned with the 1050s) and the focus nob having some slop. But the problem I really want to fix is the oil leaks. Over the years the projector has leaked so much oil that it's difficult to tell what's a leak and what is just oil from other leaks. I went through and tightened all the hex screws I could get to. And I wiped off the old oil from many parts of the projector. Assuming the projector is still leaking, what should I look for and/or adjust. And how the hell do I add oil to this thing. If I add it through the oil gage, it takes forever to get the right amount. The only other option I could find was pulling back the gear cover and pouring it directly into the sump. For what it's worth, my projector has the oil indicator mounted on the back side near the framing nob rather than on the front under the lens. Also, I think I have a more current version of the manual if FT is interested.  |  IP: Logged James Westbrook Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1133 From: Lubbock, Texas, Usa Registered: Mar 2006 posted 05-13-2008 03:09 PM                     That back gear cover is my first suspect, and where I've had the most leaks occur. The gasket may need to be replaced. Next is the oil drain petcock, which resembles that of a car radiator's drain petcock. This may need replacing or sealing around the base of the petcock with silicone caulk. (You want to be able to drain the oil for oil changes). This is where I would start. The other fellows will add to this list...  |  IP: Logged Sean McKinnon Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1712 From: Peabody Massachusetts Registered: Sep 2000 posted 05-13-2008 03:11 PM                        Be prepared to change all of the seals, and bushings.  |  IP: Logged Kenneth Wuepper Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1026 From: Saginaw, MI, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 05-13-2008 05:57 PM                     Justin, What angle is your projector? Does it tilt up toward the screen? If that is the case, then the oil glass should be at the rear of the mechanism nearest the lamp house. If the machine is level or pointed slightly downward to the screen, then the front sight glass position is indicated. Once oil has managed to get past a seal or gasket it will continue to leak regardless of how much you tighten the covers. Mark will have some better information on the sealing of Simplex XLs. They are capable of putting out a fine picture but the lubricant seepage can be a nuisance. KEN  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 05-13-2008 08:02 PM                     Ken made a very good point mentioning tilt angle. Be sure that you don't put too much oil in the projector for your given tilt angle. Over-filling it will just cause the oil to seep past the main drive shaft and then run all over the place. I would reccomend the following because you said its been poorly maintained over the years. 1. Tear the entire machine down and replace any worn parts and install all new gaskets. Note that its going to cost you well over a grand to do this properly and your dealer may just want to do it in place or he may want to do it in his shop and provide you with a loaner head in the mean time. At CLACO we provide loaner heads at no charge when we have to haul em in for rebuild. Also don't forget the sound reproducer... its probably been just as neglected as the projector. 2. Install the seal kit that Strong makes for the XL. This also allows an increase in oil level over the several ounces an XL will hold until it simply runs out past the main drive shaft. If you install the seal kit be sure to maintin the oil level at least half way up the sael... this will lubricate the seal so it doesn't fail prematurely. XL's always should have had more oil in them from the beginning!! At the same time also install the new rear gear cover. The new gear cover is much beefier than the old one and also has a much better seal. If you do the above it should resolve much of your leak situation but it won't stop the leaks 100%. The old XL's have very porus alumnium main castings mainly because of the choosen alloy and because they are not heat treated. POwder coating the main casting sometimes helps with the leaks. New Simplex's utilize heat treated main castings, have little porosity and they are also much heavier then the old ones. Why on earth folks prefer the old black ones is beyond me, I always thought they were pretty crappy by today's standards. I'd much rather have a current production PR1014 with the stiffer/beefier main frame than any old black XL variant. Good luck with your repairs!! Mark  |  IP: Logged Louis Bornwasser Film God Posts: 4441 From: prospect ky usa Registered: Mar 2005 posted 05-13-2008 08:53 PM                        Strong must have done ONE thing right! Louis  |  IP: Logged Dave Macaulay Film God Posts: 2321 From: Toronto, Canada Registered: Apr 2001 posted 05-13-2008 11:06 PM                     There are a bunch of places it can leak through... a good cleaning with simple green or some other degreaser will let you see where the oil is actually coming from. Once the operating side is clean, look for oil running down from behind the upper and lower sprocket mounting subassemblies. These have paper gaskets on old units and rubber "donut" seals on newer ones. If oil is coming from the upper sprocket shaft - dripping off the sprocket (and oiling the film... yuck) then probably the "wick" in the oiling hole in back is missing - this wick reduces the amount of oil getting into the housing so it doesn't fill up and seep through the bushings. If you have problems with the seals/gaskets or this wick thing, be careful as the driving gear mesh for those sprocket shafts is set by positioning the housings when installing them. If you have oil coming out of the intermittent shaft bushing that's not good. Later models, after Simplex discovered O-rings around 1990, have a tiny one sealing the shaft; earlier production has a spiral groove in the shaft that leads oil back into the intermittent case. You probably shouldn't go inside the intermittent trying to fix a leak there. A leak from around the intermittent case where it sits in the framing unit leads back to the O-ring revelation. Previous XLs have a system of gutters and drain holes around the intermittent that try to send oil back to the gear side - with reasonable success. Later ones use an O-rings around the intermittent case and another around the framing unit the intermittent fits into. On the old ones goop and gunk block the drain holes and just pulling the intermittent and cleaning them out usually helps a lot. The new ones will need new O-rings if they leak... the drain holes are no longer there. On the whole intermittent/framing collar assemblage just doing a thorough cleaning (the intermittent has to come out for this) can work wonders. Oil seems to follow a wet trail, clean away the trail and it stops. Out back, Louis and Mark have covered the bases pretty well. The back covers have a tendency to get warped - somebody tries to stop an oil leak by taking the big pliers out and cranking the 3 clamp nuts down. Still leaking? Tighten some more! You may be able to gently bend it back into shape. Be really careful if you have an actual glass window... newer ones are plastic and don't shatter. You shouldn't need a lot of force to seal the back cover! The secret is to have the cover gasket and the sealing surface on the main casting (regardless of type) absolutely clean and oil-free before installing it (note that this is nearly impossible) then carefully tightening the nuts to get slight compression of the seal all the way around. The drive shaft is probably not sealed at all and you have to keep the oil level such that it's below the hole. There's a paper gasket under the bearing cap that will seep oil if bad, but major leaks here are usually because of misunderstanding the sight glass: the proper sight glass level depends on the projector angle and there should be a small metal sliding ring on the glass tube that is to be set - depending on the tilt angle - to show your full level. The sight glass mounts in front for down tilts, at the rear for up tilts. The sight glass mounts and hole covers have paper gaskets too. For oil filling, I assume you don't have the oil filler in the rear cover... Strong also tried an odd approach with a metal sleeve around the shutter timing adjustment knob - this pulls up to cover said knob and is then a filler funnel (no kidding) so if you have this sleeve that pulls up there's your filler. Otherwise use the sight glass filler. You can improve that by improving the hole where it flows into the casting... sight glass, gasket, and casing each have holes the oil has to get through and they rarely line up properly - plus the hole into the casting is often not all the way through leaving a tiny orifice into the oil sump. If you have a pumping oil can that fits tightly into the filler you can force oil through pretty fast too.  |  IP: Logged Louis Bornwasser Film God Posts: 4441 From: prospect ky usa Registered: Mar 2005 posted 05-14-2008 06:18 PM                        Well covered! I cannot tell you how many times, "there was just too much oil!" Sometimes also, the oil sight was moved to the front or rear, but the INTERNAL pump changes were not made!! Louis  |  IP: Logged Michael Moore Expert Film Handler Posts: 188 From: Dover, DE / USA Registered: Jun 2006 posted 05-14-2008 06:45 PM                        quote: Justin Hamaker But the problem I really want to fix is the oil leaks. I had a super simplex about a year, ago with many oil leaks. my solution was to put it in the trash and get a Century. however i did rebuild the SH-1000 and it runs like new... i know I know you all hate the SH-1000 but I love it. Mike  |  IP: Logged Dave Macaulay Film God Posts: 2321 From: Toronto, Canada Registered: Apr 2001 posted 05-14-2008 07:42 PM                     The SH and RCA soundheads are excellent... the only problem being the lay-on roller. The price of a new gearbox soundhead would be several times what anyone sane would pay, though.  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 05-14-2008 08:13 PM                     Thing I don't like is with the INT assembly: no gasket around that assembly-just metal to metal contact when it sits in the framing carriage.Even though it does have the drainholes in the framing carriage to prevent leakage to come inside the operating side, but it still sweats around this assembly circumference and puddles where it wants to. the Mil2K machines finally took care of this with that very small "O" ring gasket around the assembly. Oh, then you got the main drive seal kits to chek into. Seen many-a-sprocket grooved by the seal to get a good leak there. Yep, good ol' potmetal rear doors. Changed a few out to quit the "runny noses" that eventually likes to occur.  |  IP: Logged Louis Bornwasser Film God Posts: 4441 From: prospect ky usa Registered: Mar 2005 posted 05-14-2008 08:24 PM                        To be fair; to like a Simplex, you must like OIL! Louis  |  IP: Logged Michael Moore Expert Film Handler Posts: 188 From: Dover, DE / USA Registered: Jun 2006 posted 05-14-2008 10:16 PM                        You know the lay-on roller is a problem, and I have to say I wish it was designed a little better, but I have to say, if the roller is cleaned all the time, I mean every day, and night, then the problems are minimized. And some here will still say it damages the film, and while it may I can defend my SH. Because the damage it may have on film is nothing compared to some of the film we get shipped to us! I have seen prints that look like they were used to cover the booth floor for a few days.  |  IP: Logged Randy Bowden Expert Film Handler Posts: 146 From: Portland, OR, USA Registered: Aug 2000 posted 05-16-2008 03:21 PM                     Provided your image is stable and the machine is running relatively smooth and quiet, getting the machine up to snuff should not be to terribly difficult. Lets break this down so that it doesn't seem so overwhelming. Back door: As mentioned previously there is the newer style back door that can be purchased. Or you could just reseal yours. I've resealed numerous old style back doors with good success. Just keep in mind that there are about 4 different variations on the simplex back door. If you have a black XL with matching black door, then you likely have a round tube gasket for the outer seal and a flat black gasket for the window seal. Get the gaskets for the door from Wolk, the outer black gasket that wolk sells is far better than the one you will get from Strong. Also, you may notice that the 3 points on the door where the thumbscrews bolt up have over time become bent forward, thus causing the door to not seal very well. You can flatten them back out with a rubber mallet. Main Drive: Just get the seal kit and be done with it. This is a major oil leak point without the kit. You will also get new o-rings for the framing shaft with the kit, it's possible you are leaking here as well. Oil gauge: To reseal the oil gauge you will need the black neoprene gasket, fiber washer and main frame gasket. may as well get a spare sight glass to go along with it, because they do break rather easily. Feed sprocket assy's usually will not leak unless someone has removed them, then replaced without a new seal. Often on the old XL's the gaskets have more or less glued themselves in place. You are more likely to be leaking oil out the sprocket shaft. Intermittent: could be leaking oil out the star shaft, case gasket or out of the framing cam area. This one can be a little tricky to figure out, so do all the other stuff first and keep an eye on this area.  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 05-16-2008 03:51 PM                     This is the only aspect of the seal kit that Wrong did wrong! The problem is that with the old styler framing shafts there is alot more spring tension from that big spring that sits on the operators(?) side of the shaft. On later Minnellieum type machines that spring tension is alot less. If you use the O-rings on the older machines they tend to squish out of place and then a real bad leak occurs, especially if the projector is tilted uphill. I always stick with the flat rubber washers on the old machines but on the later Minnellieums I use the O-rings. No in ANY application there should be a groove for any give o-ring. If you check in Machinery's Hand book there is a formula they have to calculate the percentage of depth for a proper o-ring groove... actually you machine down a percentage of the uncompressed height of the o-ring. Then a washer or sealing surface goes over that and the o-ring can't squish out/or in. Learn't this( the hard way) from building my own underwater camera housings back in the 70's. Just another thing Wrong did wrong. I should mention that in a booth with a professional operator this is a non-issue since he/she will never touch the framing shaft... ever . P.S. Michael... I hope this o-ring groove discussion didn't bore you ! Mark  |  IP: Logged

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