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Author Topic: What is the proper loop size for a Century projector? Justin Hamaker Film God Posts: 2253 From: Lakeport, CA USA Registered: Jan 2004 posted 05-06-2008 03:28 AM                        It dawned on me tonight that I have never tried to find the proper "loop" size for a Century projector. I've been operating two of these machines for about 3 years. Prior to that I had always operated Simplex 1050s or Simplex Millenniums. I understand the purpose of the loops and I know that too big can cause scratches too small can actually pull open gates. I have never had either problem on the two Centurys I operate, but I would like to know what is the proper size. I don't know the exact model, but looking through the manuals on FT, the MSC looks right.  |  IP: Logged Sean McKinnon Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1712 From: Peabody Massachusetts Registered: Sep 2000 posted 05-06-2008 06:18 AM                        I have found that you can set the top loop by opening the pad roller and loosely wrapping the film around it. I do the same thing with the bottom loop but make it a sprocket hole or two larger. I prefer smaller loops. A lot of co-workers over the years complained that I made my loops too small but my machines ran quieter, I had less threading problems, and never got those annoying "standing" scratches on any of the prints I ran. When I would come in on a day off I would see all the loops slapping around the top of the machines, getting scratched, and running louder than the engine on my old Camaro!  |  IP: Logged David Zylstra Master Film Handler Posts: 432 From: Novi, MI, USA Registered: Mar 2007 posted 05-06-2008 08:05 AM                     An old Century tech once told me that the pad rollers were meant to be the reference point for setting the loops (maybe by design or by accident, only the original engineers know). To set the proper loop size under the intermittent I originally counted frames from the aperture to the solar cell - this verified the proper lower loop . . . . I found that if I inserted my finger inline with the shoe pivot and thumb stud it gave the right loop which was slightly larger than loosely around the pad roller. The mylar leader I used had numbers on it and there were indicators where the soundtrack was - i.e. threading with a number at the aperture you would have a diamond on the frame at the solar cell. I also found the same thing as Sean - with proper loop size the Century would run quieter.  |  IP: Logged Tim Reed Better Projection Pays Posts: 5246 From: Northampton, PA Registered: Sep 1999 posted 05-06-2008 08:07 AM                       According to the original manual, the open pad roller arms gauged the loop size.  |  IP: Logged Sean McKinnon Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1712 From: Peabody Massachusetts Registered: Sep 2000 posted 05-06-2008 11:46 AM                        How many ways can three people say the same thing  |  IP: Logged James Westbrook Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1133 From: Lubbock, Texas, Usa Registered: Mar 2006 posted 05-06-2008 12:05 PM                     The fellow who trained me "all those years ago" told me "2 fingers for the loop". After my first few threads, "2 fingers, James. Not your whole fist."  |  IP: Logged David Zylstra Master Film Handler Posts: 432 From: Novi, MI, USA Registered: Mar 2007 posted 05-06-2008 12:29 PM                     quote: Sean McKinnon How many ways can three people say the same thing LOL . . . . . The triumvirate has spoken, it is law . . . . at least we didn't have 3 conflicting answers like most questions do. I was also originally taught 2 fingers, but after a little learning found 1 to be more inline with the proper distance from picture to sound reader (at least with my fingers).  |  IP: Logged Sean McKinnon Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1712 From: Peabody Massachusetts Registered: Sep 2000 posted 05-06-2008 04:06 PM                        The problem is that even if your teachers two fingers created the perfect loop I bet your two fingers, and my two fingers, and brads two fingers are all different sizes which throws any consistency out the window! "2 Finger Rule" = Wrong!  |  IP: Logged David Zylstra Master Film Handler Posts: 432 From: Novi, MI, USA Registered: Mar 2007 posted 05-06-2008 04:57 PM                     Yep, after a little experience I realized how inconsistent 2 fingers was and started studying on my own . . . . that's why I always taught my "students" that the analog soundtrack is 21 frames ahead and they should learn for themselves how to get the proper distance between picture and sound (some people's "2 finger" methods would end up with 22 frames) . . . . . we also always used leader with a countdown and with 10 at the aperture there was a diamond on the frame at the sound reader (the number 10 was also the 7 second point for dowser open timing on automation start). Another key thing on the Century was returning the framing to center if you had to adjust for a bad splice.  |  IP: Logged Tim Reed Better Projection Pays Posts: 5246 From: Northampton, PA Registered: Sep 1999 posted 05-06-2008 05:12 PM                       quote: Sean McKinnon How many ways can three people say the same thing I didn't see it that way. You said, "I have found..." which indicated you weren't sure if it was the "right" way or not. Then, David said, "An old Century tech once told me..." denoting second-hand information that could've been a wive's tale for all he knew. I referenced the manual for a definitive answer.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 05-07-2008 12:24 AM                     Please note on the Century pad roller thing...it is up to the Tech or <gulp> the factory to set how far the pad roller arm swings open...so your loops may vary. Steve  |  IP: Logged Justin Hamaker Film God Posts: 2253 From: Lakeport, CA USA Registered: Jan 2004 posted 05-07-2008 02:39 AM                        I took a closer look at this at work today and realize that my top loop was about right, but my bottom loop has been probably 2-3 frames too big. I'm glad I asked this question.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 05-07-2008 02:42 AM                     An easy rule of thumb with Centurys is to say that with the lower loop in its smallest position (just before the pulldown of the next frame) the distance from the inside of the loop to the intermittent shoe pivot point should be just big enough to stick a Sharpie marker in there. Most people make that loop WAAAAAAAAY too big.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 05-07-2008 06:29 AM                     I've found that if the bottom loop size is correct, it won't bounce up and down like mad but tend to hold its shape like a Simplex will. Steve  |  IP: Logged Sean McKinnon Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1712 From: Peabody Massachusetts Registered: Sep 2000 posted 05-07-2008 02:26 PM                        Yeah, I guess you're right tim. I was under the impression that only the Century "C" manual said that about the loops which was why I was unsure of saying "according to the manual." I have found, on Simplex machines that making your loops so that they come between the top of the "bolt" in the middle of the sprocket in it's lowest position and level with the top of the sprocket in it's largest position worked well, and ran very quiet.  |  IP: Logged

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