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Topic: Bottom up lacing

Stu Jamieson
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 524
From: Buccan, Qld, Australia
Registered: Jan 2008

posted 02-15-2008 07:19 AM

I just wanted to commend whoever wrote that lacing tutorial in the "TIPS" section. As per that document I started lacing from the bottom up about 6 weeks ago and I'm now just as fast (if not faster) lacing bottom up as top down plus, of course, there's the real benefit that the leader stays off the floor now. We're using Kinoton machines here, as opposed to the Christies in the tutorial but the principle is, of course, the same. It just takes some time to nut out the techniques specific to our equipment. So kudos to whoever wrote that tutorial, it's made me a better person! [thumbsup]

So is this bottom up lacing method a widely accepted practice now?

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Ken Lackner
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1907
From: Atlanta, GA, USA
Registered: Sep 2001

posted 02-15-2008 08:23 AM

Of the six locations I take care of, only one has operators that practice this technique. I wouldn't say it's too common, unfortunately.

I operated FP-23C's and PK-60D's a few years ago, and the bottom-up method is so easy with them. Probably easier than top-down, as I recall.

I do belive Mr. Miller himself wrote that page. Brad?

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99

posted 02-15-2008 09:26 AM

Brad did write that page and it's good advice, but anybody who can't thread top-down without the leader touching the floor should get out of the business.

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John Wilson
Film God

Posts: 5438
From: Sydney, Australia.
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 02-15-2008 09:47 AM

You can thread 'up' on any machine...it just takes practice. I find it funny now when I'm doing a dolby loop where I find it tricky to thread 'down'.

Try it...do it...it's a piece of cake and other will see the benefits and copy you.

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Stu Jamieson
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 524
From: Buccan, Qld, Australia
Registered: Jan 2008

posted 02-15-2008 02:57 PM

quote: Mike Blakesley
Brad did write that page and it's good advice, but anybody who can't thread top-down without the leader touching the floor should get out of the business.

Do you mean using the clothes peg method? That seems like too much dicking around to me. I don't think there would be enough slack film available to lace top down if the film were pulled down to just off the floor. I haven't tried it though so I'll give it a shot tonight.

Kudos to Brad then - well done sir! I must make a note to send you a Fat-A-Gram for Christmas.

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Aaron Mehocic
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 804
From: New Castle, PA, USA
Registered: Jun 99

posted 02-15-2008 04:26 PM

Film-Tech member Joe Redifer is also a big proponent of bottom-up lacing.

As for myself I prefer top-down.

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David Zylstra
Master Film Handler

Posts: 432
From: Novi, MI, USA
Registered: Mar 2007

posted 02-15-2008 04:37 PM

I always did top-down without leader hitting the floor - without clothepins too - our platters and rollers were configured to make it possible. I also found it easier to get the proper timing mark in the aperture for when the dowser opened the picture.

Of course if we had platter/roller config where the leader always hit the floor I would have gotten used to bottom-up and learned the correct points to get the timing mark in the right place.

If I remember correctly National Amusements was teaching this method in the 80's (maybe even earlier?) in their national projection training clases(some associates of mine who worked for them in the early 90's were taught bottom-up by their manager who went through the NA projection training years earlier)

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

posted 02-16-2008 12:01 AM

Oh, if one practices and has patience during such, reverse lacing can be simple as tying up your shoeslaces.

I've taught a few kids on this procedure and it's amazing that they'd rather do reverse lacing than the forward lacing for they find it easier to handle the film since there is no excess flopping of film all over the floor.

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Peter David Bruce
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 187
From: East Anglia -England
Registered: Aug 2007

posted 02-17-2008 05:07 AM

Hm. We have Century MSC TA projectors and everything else is strong. I cant see how it would be even possible to thread bottom up, or even to not let the film touch the floor. If theres a link to proper lacing on my kit, please let me know. Everyone else who works here does it the same way. Pull it all through until you reach the countdown, lace it up, and pull the excess through under the projector and back to the platters. You need all that excess to reach the platters again.....

I must ask... is it really all that important to not get the leader (basically just clear mylar and a countdown) dirty... i mean, its never actually on screen, and through print cleaning im sure our methods are fine. That may just be my training but I cant see a need for that kind of lacing.

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Ben Wales
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 602
From: Southampton. England
Registered: Jul 99

posted 02-17-2008 05:18 AM

It's easy when you know a Method, I use to lace up the Platter first (pass through projector Platter feed rollers without loading projector)then back to lace the projector, but need to avoid pulling the Take-up side of the Platter leader.

This avoids having loads of Leader thrown on the floor that gets Dirty and is not good Practice as more here would agree.

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Peter David Bruce
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 187
From: East Anglia -England
Registered: Aug 2007

posted 02-17-2008 05:22 AM

Hm. thanks ben I think I follow. I literally go around the projector... avoiding laceup completely. pull it through until I have just enough to get it onto the platter.... Then lace it up and motor the film through to the countdown?

Not sure what you mean about the 'takeup side' though.?

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Ben Wales
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 602
From: Southampton. England
Registered: Jul 99

posted 02-17-2008 05:31 AM

quote: Peter David Bruce
Not sure what you mean about the 'takeup side' though.?

It's the side from the Projector back to the Platter/Cake Stand.

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Peter David Bruce
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 187
From: East Anglia -England
Registered: Aug 2007

posted 02-17-2008 05:35 AM

Um okay well today I shall try this out. Wonder if I can also do the bottom up lacing... will have to think about that! Cheers guys

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Stu Jamieson
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 524
From: Buccan, Qld, Australia
Registered: Jan 2008

posted 02-17-2008 06:14 AM

quote: Peter David Bruce
Hm. thanks ben I think I follow. I literally go around the projector... avoiding laceup completely. pull it through until I have just enough to get it onto the platter.... Then lace it up and motor the film through to the countdown?

That's pretty much exactly it, mate.

Here's the tutorial I was talking about. It's for Christie equipment but the principles can be applied to any setup.
http://www.film-tech.com/warehouse/tips/threading/threading.html

I'm the only one at my site who laces bottom up so I had to nut it out myself. It took me 4 or 5 weeks to develop the techniques which would allow me to lace at the same speed as the old way (I think it's even a little quicker). I started by lacing bottom up whenever I had the time and if the sessions started to rack up I'd just revert back to top down style. By the second week I was fast enough to lace everything bottom up. Now that I can lace bottom up, I can't imagine ever wanting to do it the other way. Bottom up lacing is so much less messy than top down and it's just an all-round more elegant solution.

BTW, this article is also worth a look:
http://www.film-tech.com/warehouse/tips/presentation/presentation.html

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Chris Slycord
Film God

Posts: 2986
From: 퍼항시, 경상푹도, South Korea
Registered: Mar 2007

posted 02-17-2008 10:14 AM

quote: Peter David Bruce
Hm. thanks ben I think I follow. I literally go around the projector... avoiding laceup completely. pull it through until I have just enough to get it onto the platter.... Then lace it up and motor the film through to the countdown?

While that works, try pulling enough film that you don't have to hit the motor switch when you're done. Puts less wear on the motor having it turn on and off quickly plus having your print spin quickly then stop can make it shift a bit.

Or at the very least if you are going to use the motor switch, just wait until showtime to hit it then use your automation's start switch and once the automation says the show is running flick the motor switch back off.

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