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Topic: Christie AW3R Timing

Thomas Dieter
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 234
From: Yakima, WA
Registered: Jun 2004

posted 10-12-2007 01:18 AM

Okay, I've been doing some PM at the theatre, and part of that is checking out the timing on the platters. I have one deck that when I'm setting the LED intensity, jumps around. Here are the settings suggested to me by our tech.

Volt Meter Setting 20M Ω
LED Intensity at 20º = 0.45Ω
At 20º motor barely moves or "growls"
At 70º 20 rotations per minute

Now my problem is getting the LED intensity to settle down at 0.45Ω. It started out at 0.50Ω, and when I went to turn it down, it jumped to 0.75Ω. So I turn in down farther and it drops to 0.30Ω.

Is this symptoms of a bad trim pot or card?

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

posted 10-12-2007 03:22 AM

Do you have a spare card to try out, or at least trading one card from a slot and moving it around?

Could also be a bad sensor in the tower's arm when you set the brain to the 20 degree mark. Or, the filter wheel could be loose on the shaft inside the arm to give you irratic readings.

I trust that you know that when you do these sensor settings that you let the system stabilize after removing the cards and after powering up before any readings can take place.

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Thomas Dieter
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 234
From: Yakima, WA
Registered: Jun 2004

posted 10-12-2007 03:43 AM

quote: Monte Fullmer
Do you have a spare card to try out, or at least trading one card from a slot and moving it around?

I assume you are refering to the card that has the LED intensity trim pots on it. I don't think that I have one laying around in one of my cabinets, but I haven't looked throughly.

quote: Monte Fullmer
I trust that you know that when you do these sensor settings that you let the system stabilize after removing the cards and after powering up before any readings can take place.

What is considered sufficent time to allow the platter to stablize? Generally, I take all three cards out, lay them in order 3, 2, 1, with 3 closest to the tree. Turn the power on and set all the payout arms at 20º. Set my plugs in 1, walk to the concession stand to get a drink momentairly, and then start setting limits. Generally this takes a total of about 3-5 mins in total. I would say 5 minutes is more the sufficent.

Now after I've set all the LEDs, and I've turned the power off to put the cards back in, do I have to let the LEDs stablize again?

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

posted 10-12-2007 04:43 AM

No, once the motor trim cards are put back in their respective slots and system is powered back on again, there is no stabilization period necessary.

If you have another AW3R in your theatre, swap out LED power control cards between the two and see if the resistance problem follow to that other platter, and if it does, then you got an LED power control card with a problem. BUT, if not, then the sensor is at fault.

Power control card no. 117509-001

Sensor part (the older one) no. 192847-002 ... and stock a couple of these ..

Motor control card fuses 546105-008

(if you goof on the hi/lo pots on the motor control card, you'll might pop those very small clear cylinder fuses mounted on the motor card - it's nice to have a few of these fuses available around as well...)

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Louis Bornwasser
Film God

Posts: 4441
From: prospect ky usa
Registered: Mar 2005

posted 10-12-2007 11:22 AM

It is normal for there to be an unstable reading. There are two reasons for this. 1. The Cds cell itself has a memory/time lag. In addition, the source for LED power is unregulated and the LEDs are touchy: the transfer function for setting brightness has a steep rise between off and full up. )

I would swap senors first, then LED cards second until you find the "problem child." So Monte's suggestions are correct. Only just excpect the "ohms" to vary.

Also, look in the Tips secion of this web site to get full information on that platter. It is much better than the factory instructions. Louis

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Thomas Dieter
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 234
From: Yakima, WA
Registered: Jun 2004

posted 10-12-2007 12:06 PM

Great, Thanks for the information. I will try this out next time I'm working on them. I think i fiddled with it long enough, it'll get through til I have to work with it again.

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Ken Lackner
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1907
From: Atlanta, GA, USA
Registered: Sep 2001

posted 10-12-2007 02:57 PM

When it comes to checking resistance to set the LED intensity, I always use the 70@70 rule: With the payout arme at 70 degrees, resistance across pins 12 and 14 should be set to 70k-ohms.

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

posted 10-13-2007 01:15 AM

..and be handier if one uses a digital VOM meter for those resistance readings.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 10-13-2007 09:27 AM

Juat so all of you are aware...

Christie stopped using the old style photocell a couple of years ago.... The cells had become too inconsistant in manufacture.

There is a new kit available for well under $200.00 to convert older AW-3's to the new style sensor(IR LED and photo transistor). The new sensor kit also includes new filters since the new sensors read the filter at the edge and a new LED card. There are no longer any adjustments on the LED card and the sensors are self calibrating. All this leaves is the high/low speed controls to be set. Any AW-3 with this new kit installed is far more stable and reliable than it ever was.

Mark

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

posted 10-13-2007 12:44 PM

I've got 9 brand new AW3R platters at the SMG Arlington theater that have been in use for about 9 months. I am not impressed with them, and made that clear to Christie regarding them.

Anyone wanting the "upgrade kit", let's get together and do a swap. I'll trade you these brand new IR ones for some older visible leds. Mark? Any takers?

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Ken Lackner
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1907
From: Atlanta, GA, USA
Registered: Sep 2001

posted 10-13-2007 01:09 PM

I concur with Brad. Have not had the greatest results with the IR kit. Christie still sells the old-style LED/Sensor assembly, so you can continue to replace them if they go bad.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 10-13-2007 04:07 PM

quote: Brad Miller
I've got 9 brand new AW3R platters at the SMG Arlington theater that have been in use for about 9 months. I am not impressed with them, and made that clear to Christie regarding them.

I find just the opposite! Over the last two years we've sold close to 30 platter systems and not one of them has broken down. The majority of them are in the dreaded Weststes chain and they literally get hammered! As far as the old sensors go both myself and Heir Guttag have had problems with them. Just last week I went through three new sensors before I found one that would barely make 70K. Best to get used to the new stuff... pretty soon you won't even be able to get the old cells at all.... thanks to ROHS.

Mark

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

posted 10-13-2007 04:17 PM

They don't break down Mark, they are simply unstable. Within 2 weeks, the timing was substantially too slow after their initial setup. Here 9 months later we have seen a substantial drop in speed that the decks are capable of.

This is fine for the average theater that doesn't set their timing all that well, as when the leds start to dim it makes the platter run better, but not for me. The visible leds did not suffer this sort of dimming.

So since you think they are so great, email me and let's do some swapping!

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

posted 10-13-2007 05:15 PM

quote:
The majority of them are in the dreaded Weststes chain and they literally get hammered!

Sounds like they've got a serious "infection" of sorts called poor training. Sounds like they need to convert their locations to digital.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 10-13-2007 06:04 PM

quote: Brad Miller
The visible leds did not suffer this sort of dimming.

Brad... if you can't see the IR led's how do you know they're fading? If you know of some visible LED's that never fade let me know the part number...

Again, I just have had zero problems with them and zero means no timing drift. I do check all platters when I go thorugh a complex. Makes me wonder if you got a bad batch. Sort of along the lines of you having all low error readings on SRD while I generally see 3 to 5 up here.

quote: Monte L Fullmer
Sounds like they've got a serious "infection" of sorts called poor training.

No, much more serious than that. Its called make more $$ at McDonalds. Some locations are paying as much as $15.00 an hour to start. Monte... even you could be making more $$ [thumbsup]

.

Mark

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