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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » What would you do if your print flew off? (Page 1)

 
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Author Topic: What would you do if your print flew off?
Wyatt Copeland
Film Handler

Posts: 74
From: Gettysburg, PA, USA
Registered: Aug 2007


 - posted 08-06-2007 11:32 AM      Profile for Wyatt Copeland   Email Wyatt Copeland   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
This happened a while ago, but when I was breaking down Stranger than Fiction, the peg in my ring broke (darn old used equipment). I ended up with a plate full of spaghetti film(about four reels worth on the floor).
We ended up winding it back up by hand. It took a while and I'm sure the movie is extremely dirty now, but we did it.
Aside from trashing it and paying the hefty fee, are there any alternatives to what I did?

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Chris Slycord
Film God

Posts: 2986
From: 퍼항시, 경상푹도, South Korea
Registered: Mar 2007


 - posted 08-06-2007 12:46 PM      Profile for Chris Slycord   Email Chris Slycord   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If most of it was mostly circular you could possibly get something underneath it to lift it back onto a platter, stick a brain in, and run the movie onto a platter with another ring that's hopefully not gonna break.

Though I'm sure you can (now) get replacement pegs for the broken ring. Wouldn't hurt to get a bunch of them if your other rings are just as old.

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Wyatt Copeland
Film Handler

Posts: 74
From: Gettysburg, PA, USA
Registered: Aug 2007


 - posted 08-06-2007 12:49 PM      Profile for Wyatt Copeland   Email Wyatt Copeland   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yeah..I went through and replaced all the pegs even if they didn't need it.
As for slipping something under it..probably would have helped if it hadn't exploded. It hit the table and the middle just shot into the air. Really strange considering it wasn't going all that fast.
Thanks [Smile]

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John Walsh
Film God

Posts: 2490
From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 08-06-2007 02:30 PM      Profile for John Walsh   Email John Walsh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have found that in almost every instance, the operator cranks up the speed too fast while breaking down. Usually when it's flung off, it will stay somewhat in order. For one guy, we carefully dropped the hunk of film into a large garbage pail with wheels. While slowly winding the film out and onto a reel, we could spin the garbage pail around and around to keep the film from twisting.

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 08-06-2007 02:51 PM      Profile for Mike Blakesley   Author's Homepage   Email Mike Blakesley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Spend a hundred bucks, get yourself a FT platter ring. You'll never have that problem again.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 08-06-2007 02:55 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Don't throw the print in the trash or the studio will try to have you murdered for "piracy" or some such nonsense.

Generally if a print gets tossed there are large chunks of it that are still in "loop" form. I had this happen (one peg on the center ring broke) on Titanic, and I got it back together making only 5 splices. Here is how to do it.

First, DON'T TOUCH OR MOVE THE PILE OF FILM!!!

Ok now that we have made that clear, it's time to pick up the first (easiest) loop of film that you can. You want to try and keep the sections in as large of a piece as possible without any tangling. Cut the film 2 perforations off of a camera cut frameline. (Yes, right dead center of the image, 1/2 of a frame to either side of where the camera changes angles. You can use a pair of scissors.) Set the loop of film onto an empty platter, thread the middle of it through the brain and route the rollers onto the MUT so that the MUT is breaking down "through" the brain. Let this loop of film wind onto the reel, making sure you DO NOT LEAVE IT! As the film accumulates onto the reel, it will pull the film through the brain faster and faster. As such you will end up with a brain wrap if you leave it for more than maybe a minute, so expect to have to slow your MUT down every minute or so during this process.

Now that you have the first chunk of film onto a reel (this may be 5 minutes worth of 3 reels worth), it's time to repeat that process again and again until you get it all onto reels.

At this point all of the reels SHOULD be "tails up"...but not necessarily. Regardless start with the last reel, which should be obvious to you. Wind it over to a 6000' reel, remembering that you just wound them THROUGH the brain, so the film rolls will not be wound tightly. In order to prevent further damage, you need to almost fully back off on your supply drag clutch on the rewind table.

When you get that last chunk of film onto the 6000 foot reel, look at the tip of it. You will either see a series of frames, with the first one cut in half...or you will see a series of frames, and then 2 perforations of a different frame. Regardless, just match it up to the next reel so you have a matching frame when the two ends are butted up against each other. Once you have found the next reel, cut the 2 perforations out and make a proper splice. Wind that reel and continue on and on until you get the entire movie back onto two or three 6000 foot reels, then reload to the platter.

Don't forget to run a film cleaner on the very next show!!! In fact you should plan on running the film cleaner on the next several shows at least to clean up the dust you picked up.

If you follow this routine and your booth is carpeted, you can expect for the print to essentially still be in near-perfect viewable condition. If you have a tile or cement floor, well you're just screwed, but at least this will help you get it back together in the most efficient way possible.

(FYI - if you were planning on shipping this print out, you still need to run it at least once and make sure you have it all put back together properly, which it should be. Then break it back down normally.)

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Wyatt Copeland
Film Handler

Posts: 74
From: Gettysburg, PA, USA
Registered: Aug 2007


 - posted 08-06-2007 03:03 PM      Profile for Wyatt Copeland   Email Wyatt Copeland   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks brad. Thats a lot better response than my bosses. Hopefully it will never happen again(and so far it hasn't. I've restricted the muts to go at a fair pace even when cranked up.) and hopefully if it does, I'll have my FC-1 repaired.
Very nice advice! I'll have to jot it down and tape it to the wall upstairs just in case [thumbsup]

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 08-06-2007 03:20 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
If only my schedule wasn't so busy, I would make a how to video by intentionally slinging this very deserving print off of the platter and then putting it back together showing this technique.

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Wyatt Copeland
Film Handler

Posts: 74
From: Gettysburg, PA, USA
Registered: Aug 2007


 - posted 08-06-2007 03:46 PM      Profile for Wyatt Copeland   Email Wyatt Copeland   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Itd be worth it just to see that print fly through the air.

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Chris Slycord
Film God

Posts: 2986
From: 퍼항시, 경상푹도, South Korea
Registered: Mar 2007


 - posted 08-06-2007 05:11 PM      Profile for Chris Slycord   Email Chris Slycord   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Mike Blakesley
Spend a hundred bucks, get yourself a FT platter ring. You'll never have that problem again.
He's not talking about a print thrown in the middle of a show. He's talking about breaking down a print and having the ring break apart.

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 08-06-2007 05:16 PM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I've had a lot of luck with the "figure-8" lay. That is, you hold the loop of film (doesn't matter how much so long as you can hold it and it will be for several minutes).

You lay the film on the ground in a figure-8 fashion. That is, you hold the loop of film in one hand (say your left hand to start)...take your right hand and pull the top most wrap of film to the right. Then pass the loop to your right hand and pull the next wrap off to the left....repeat....repeat...repeat until the entire wad is now on the ground but HOLD ON TO THE END OF THE FILM and don't let it fall into the rather huge pile that is on the ground. The pile may look tangled but it isn't...it will lay there just fine and not kill itself unless you mess with it. Take that end that still in your hand and load it onto a reel on your MUT...guide the film into the reel so that the face of the film doesn't hit either flange. You can go a pretty high speed...as fast as your hands will allow without cutting. The film will pull up like a single strand of spaghetti.

Believe it or not...it doesn't take long to lay a large amount of film down but it does take a fair amount of space.

I've saved many a rattled operator with this technique and the film doesn't seem to show any worse for wear (the part that was just laid down...the parts that might have been pulled and stretched durring the mishap...that is another story).

Mostly, I've used it to reverse an upside down reel (always by others, I might add).

Steve

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 08-06-2007 06:49 PM      Profile for Mike Blakesley   Author's Homepage   Email Mike Blakesley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Chris Slycord
He's not talking about a print thrown in the middle of a show. He's talking about breaking down a print and having the ring break apart.
Oh. Yeah. Sorry. But, still get a ring, it's worth the investment.

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Christopher Meredith
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 126
From: Jackson, MS, USA
Registered: Apr 2006


 - posted 08-06-2007 07:32 PM      Profile for Christopher Meredith   Author's Homepage   Email Christopher Meredith   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I developed a technique for this once, by necessity. One of my trainees, after having been explicitly told not to try to move a print by himself, decided that moving a print from one platter deck to another was an acceptable exception. He was wrong and ended up dumping "Superman Returns" from the top platter right onto the floor.

What I ended up doing was taking a fistful of cable ties and set to work. I gathered up the largest sections possible without disturbing the "nest" and tied them off, one by one. Once I had separated it out as best I could. I cut the sections apart from one another until I had 7 or 8 large sections and several hundred (manageable) feet of twisted mess leftover. I then got the shipping reels out of the can and put one on the spindle of the rewind bench and threaded the inside of one of the large loops onto it. Then I laid the whole loop on the core of the reel, cut the cable tie, and started the motor, slowly. The flanges of the reel kept the section together and it eventually wound itself back onto the reel. I repeated the process until I had all the film wound up onto reels. Then it was just a matter of rebuilding the print back onto the platter, being careful to re-attach the sections at the right places.

Doing this, I was able to re-assemble the print, run it through the film cleaner, and break it down properly by myself, in one shift, while still running the projection booth as normal.

(This was a far cry better than when I had to help clean up "Prisoner of Azkaban" and it took three of us until sunup the next day to get it all back in the can!)

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004


 - posted 08-06-2007 11:44 PM      Profile for Monte L Fullmer   Email Monte L Fullmer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Course, you can have this booth dilemma when a splice decides to hang up in the failsafe and all 5 reels pile up under the machine..

 -

But, it was an easy cleanup as mentioned: grab the tail end and just wind the mess back up on reels on the MUT and not touching any of the film since it was laying down on top of another, then rebuild back on the platter - sending the completed build through a few passes through the Kelmar and FG and you're good to go as if it didn't happen.

Luckilly, this mess happened during the last show of the night, thus that closing operator had the privilege to do the procedures as mentioned above, thus no showings were lost.

Oh, I've had the dubious honour to clean up a print that flew off the deck on breakdown when the ring decides to undone itself from the deck and 6 reels went 'frisbee style' on the floor since the brain wasn't in the middle of that breakdown deck.

I'd just simply broke each splice to where I pulled out each reel from the "nest" and laid them aside. Then, just took each reel, put it on the deck, put a ring in the middle to help contain the that mess, spun the deck to match up with the rewind reel on the MUT and had all of that mess done within two hours with this procedure.

TONS, TONS of Fun! [Big Grin]

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Robert E. Allen
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1078
From: Checotah, Oklahoma
Registered: Jul 2002


 - posted 08-07-2007 12:24 PM      Profile for Robert E. Allen   Email Robert E. Allen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Boy Monte! I' sure glad to see I'm not the only one this has happened to. We (myself and two other assistant managers) shut down the machine (which was still running) and slowly ran it by hand onto the take-up platter. That happened to be the latest "Pirates". I put a film cleaner on the machine for the next round. We never did figure out why it failed to take up. Must have been at least a reel. Did I ever tell you I hate platters?

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