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Author Topic: Scratching....Help! Thomas Moore Film Handler Posts: 56 From: Imperial, Mo USA Registered: Oct 2005 posted 08-04-2007 04:47 PM                        \\ \\ \\ \\ \\ Quiet simply, thats what I get on a consistant basis on the right upper part of picture if youre looking at it on screen. So inboard. Nothing in film path checked everything, everything. Anything I MIGHT have overlooked? Something you cant see with your naked eye perhaps? And yes it looks just like those slashes I put on the top of this message. Thanks for any input.  |  IP: Logged Ben Wales Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 602 From: Southampton. England Registered: Jul 99 posted 08-04-2007 04:55 PM                     Are you running from a Platter or on Two Projectors and is Base or Emuslion scratches?. We need more information on the equipment you are using, sounds that you have cross scratching from either bad rewinding/making-up or film path etc.  |  IP: Logged Thomas Moore Film Handler Posts: 56 From: Imperial, Mo USA Registered: Oct 2005 posted 08-04-2007 06:31 PM                        Sorry in my haste at work I forgot to include the basic info...duh! Simplex 35... 7 years old...5-star soundhead same age...cfs/esp 3 electronic platter sys. All pretty new equipment. I believe it to be on the emulsion side. I will triple check but that seems to be the case. Also...it is happening on one and the same projector only out of five at this theatre. So the prints in the other four are never affected. I dont think it is an error or oversight in the building of the films.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 08-04-2007 07:24 PM                     It's the platter or one of the rollers. Either the film is dragging over the edge of a platter deck as it is taking up, or you have a roller fairly severely out of alignment.  |  IP: Logged Jeremy Weigel Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1062 From: Edmond, OK, USA Registered: Mar 2007 posted 08-04-2007 07:39 PM                     Are they black, green, or yellow? If they are black then it it more than likely on the base side. If they are green and/or yellow they are definitely on the emulsion.  |  IP: Logged Christopher Meredith Expert Film Handler Posts: 126 From: Jackson, MS, USA Registered: Apr 2006 posted 08-04-2007 07:43 PM                        Check your platter and make sure all the rollers have pad rollers. My experience with these hatch marks has been that they occur when a roller which is on a caster is missing its pad roller, and the film jumps up and rides the flange. I've had it happen with the takeup roller in the middle of the presentation (it started out threaded correctly.) In my cases, replacing missing pad rollers completely eliminated the problem.  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 08-04-2007 08:26 PM                     Often the problem that causes that scratch is the film sitting on the flange of a roller or bent between the keeper and the roller  |  IP: Logged Thomas Moore Film Handler Posts: 56 From: Imperial, Mo USA Registered: Oct 2005 posted 08-04-2007 08:41 PM                        Man! Ive checked and looked, at everything. at least to me its all in perfect running order. obviously its not or i woulnt be here asking for help. by the way, the scratches are on the base...many fine, narrow, black scratches. well im off to inspect again....thanks for help.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 08-04-2007 09:56 PM                     Take a few pictures of that auditorium's projection equipment from a few different angles and post them here. We can probably find it for you that way.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 08-04-2007 10:17 PM                     If you feel it is in the projector...which is possible if it is a repeating and relatively steady scratch....take a loop of film (any loop...use an old preview) and thread it up. Run the projector without letting the loop drag on anything as it leaves and re-enters the projector. Verify that the scratching occurred after running it a few minutes. Now take a red Marker and fill in the scratches (on the same side of the film as the scratches occurred. Now re run the film for a few minutes....the red powder will point you to the contact point. In a simplex, you have the intermittent shoe tang (The curved piece that holds the intermittent shoe) this is particularly true of the shoe is on upside down. The tighter radius points must be the lower portion (where the film leaves the intermittent) otherwise the film may be allowed to pull over the tang. The other point is going into the gate area if the lateral guide roller is no longer springing out to allow the film...instead it will pinch the film and cup it towards the runners which could scratch the film. Lastly...if you have double flanged pad rollers (the type that have a flange on either side of the perforation)...unless they are LaVezzi SOR4-22 (metal) ditch em for single flange pad rollers (MNR-221). Those inboard flanges are known to scuff film. The metal ones are machined just undersized and don't generally scuff the film but the plastic ones do. Steve  |  IP: Logged Thomas Moore Film Handler Posts: 56 From: Imperial, Mo USA Registered: Oct 2005 posted 08-04-2007 11:21 PM                        Ill get the pics as brad recommende...i did try looping a piece of new trailer through the projector head...i let it run through about 100 times...no exageration there. no scratching seemed to appear at all.  |  IP: Logged Chris Slycord Film God Posts: 2986 From: 퍼항시, 경상푹도, South Korea Registered: Mar 2007 posted 08-05-2007 03:09 AM                     If the loop of film was fine then it would point to something outside of the projector itself. Now it would look to be more likely the platter/platter rollers or any other roller that wasn't tested by the running a loop of film.  |  IP: Logged Thomas Moore Film Handler Posts: 56 From: Imperial, Mo USA Registered: Oct 2005 posted 08-05-2007 12:31 PM                        my thoughts exactly. i guess ill get those pics like brad said and see if maybe im overlooking something.  |  IP: Logged David Zylstra Master Film Handler Posts: 432 From: Novi, MI, USA Registered: Mar 2007 posted 08-05-2007 01:15 PM                     Check all the rollers for wear - we had similar scratching on ORC platters that were due to the edge flanges wearing down which allowed the film to slide side to side on the flat surface that now was wide enough to either rub one side of the picture or across the soundtrack. This took us a long time to figure out . . . . . but I don't think the CFS rollers would be susceptible to this kind of extreme wear, but it's something to check - the simple procedure we used to check was to take a small snippet of film and put it on each roller and see how much the roller allowed the film to slide side to side - if it moves a lot look to be sure the edges where the sprockets ride are not wide enough to reach the picture or soundtrack area. There may also be something on the feed plate causing the scratching (if memory serves the ESP feed plate puts drag on the film to keep the payout steady).  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 08-05-2007 02:44 PM                     Guys, he has diagonal scratches. It wouldn't matter if those rollers could hold 50mm width film, that's not the cause. Look at these pictures (and review) of an older model CFS/ORC platter. Intermittent scratches can be had via the first picture due to their retarded brain design. However the following image from that review shows what is probably happening... CFS (and Strong) have always had this super paranoia about the film not laying flat on the deck and as such have created their platter designs to drag the edge of the film across the entire width of the platter deck. If that isn't happening on one of your three decks, then it's got to be a roller that isn't angled properly, such that the film is dragging over the flange of a roller.  |  IP: Logged

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