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Author Topic: Is there an adaptor for small shaft reel spindles? Frank Angel Film God Posts: 5305 From: Brooklyn NY USA Registered: Dec 1999 posted 07-16-2007 12:04 PM                        We have Kelmar arms with small shaft spindles which we need for 2000ft reels. On occasion we do use 6000ft reels. I know that the large shaft for 6000ft reels are more robust and would be the better choice IF we were using LP reels exclusively, but I can't give up the flexibility of being able to use 2000ft reels. To that end, is there an off-the-shelf shaft adaptor that can just slip over the smaller shaft spindle so it can accomodate the larger shaft reels? Or should I just order 6000ft reels with the standard small shaft and be done with it? I have a few large shaft 6000ft reels and it would me nice if I could use them as well.  |  IP: Logged James Westbrook Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1133 From: Lubbock, Texas, Usa Registered: Mar 2006 posted 07-16-2007 12:27 PM                     Frank, I remember that Potts had an adaptor for their build-up tables that simply slipped on the smaller spindle. This allowed theatres to put the big spindle reels on the tables and the smaller spindle for tear down. These may be too long for the Kelmar arms, though, not allowing the reel to be secured on the arm. (I forget what the end piece on the operator end of the shaft is called, but if isn't closed the reel may come off.)  |  IP: Logged Michael Moore Expert Film Handler Posts: 188 From: Dover, DE / USA Registered: Jun 2006 posted 07-16-2007 12:35 PM                        If you have access to a metal lathe they are very easy to make, or just get a local machinist to make you some, I'm sure they would not cost that much. Some times tech schools will do the work for free for practice, I know i did when i took classes people would come in all the time needing stuff made from gears, to shaft reduces, and boring out holes, you name it. And it was free for them and experience for us. Mike  |  IP: Logged Louis Bornwasser Film God Posts: 4441 From: prospect ky usa Registered: Mar 2005 posted 07-16-2007 12:55 PM                        Somewhere here I have a similar adapter made by Neumade to convert 35mm rewinds to 70mm. This slips over the 5/16" reel and attaches with a set screw. Might be OK for occasional use. Louis  |  IP: Logged John Walsh Film God Posts: 2490 From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way Registered: Oct 1999 posted 07-16-2007 01:37 PM                     I tried one of our 1/2" adapters in a Kelmar; the key is not long enough to engage the slot on the inside of our adapter, but there is a set screw on the bottom that can be screwed against the Kelmar shaft.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 07-16-2007 01:47 PM                     OMG...just stop with "I don't know" advice. On a MUT...one is normally dealing with a dog pin so a mere 5/16" to 1/2" sleeve will do you...however it won't work for a keyed 5/16" to a 1/2" that uses a dog pin to drive the reel. Those adapters that will provide the necessary change in the shaft will throw off the lateral alignment too. Again, not an issue so much on a MUT or rewind since if both reels are kicked out the same amount...all works. However, with a reel reference to the projector...the projector sets the lateral position. Resetting the reel arms to deal with the adapters would be courting disaster and one might find there isn't enough range anyway. What you should do if you want to use 1/2" holes for 6K reels (a really good idea, in my opinion) is to convert the arms over. You will want the 35/70 version of the spindles sans the 70mm shaft. They are two piece such that the spindle portion detatches with three cap screws but leaves the part in the bearings/clutches behind. It might be a tad expensive to convert them over but it will be cheaper than new reels and ultimately be a better system. This presumes you have 7000 series reel arms...if they are 8000 series, I don't think the parts exist. I would talk to Tom at Kelmar and he can probably tell you of any of the parts you will need and any possible pitfalls. [ 07-16-2007, 09:43 PM: Message edited by: Steve Guttag ]  |  IP: Logged Mike Blakesley Film God Posts: 12767 From: Forsyth, Montana Registered: Jun 99 posted 07-16-2007 02:00 PM                        We have a "reversible" spindle that pulls out of the MUT -- large on one end, small on the other and tightens with a setscrew. (Christie AW3). I'm not sure if it was off the shelf or custom made, Mark G. might know -- we got it from Claco, but before he worked there. I like it, it takes about 10 seconds to change.  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 07-16-2007 02:49 PM                     Intersting that Mike had to order a reversable spindle for his CHR MK35 MUT, for that is usally is a standard. ..and you can use 13k reels on those MK-35 MUTS STRONG sells those 1/2" sleeves for use on a 5/16" spindles on their MUTS. I have boo-koo plenty of then in our inventory - which works great also on a KELMAR spindle ... Chek your supplier on ordering, either those sleeves or an actual 1/2" Kelmar spindle-which there are two kinds - one with a set small-pin dog key that fits in the holes of the reel next to the center hole, or one that has an adjustable large dog key for different spacing of hubs's finger holes.  |  IP: Logged John Walsh Film God Posts: 2490 From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way Registered: Oct 1999 posted 07-16-2007 02:59 PM                     Oops .. I thought Frank meant rewind tables...  |  IP: Logged John Hawkinson Film God Posts: 2273 From: Cambridge, MA, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 07-16-2007 04:22 PM                     By the way, those Neumade adapters are great, but they are also a great way to shear off your 5/16" keys. (In terms of spacing, Steve, presumably you could use a spacer for the 1/2" shafts...) Indeed, the Kelmar changeable reel arms are quite nice. Though honestly it's a shame nobody's made something a bit faster to convert. I've been so spoiled by our Bauer U4s that convert from 16mm to 35mm in 8 seconds (4 seconds to slide the Selekton II on place, 4 seconds to change the lens and aperture); when I saw what it took to convert a JJ from 35 to 70, it seemed like eons by comparison... --jhawk  |  IP: Logged Mike Blakesley Film God Posts: 12767 From: Forsyth, Montana Registered: Jun 99 posted 07-16-2007 04:52 PM                        Knowing the shyster that we bought that equipment from, he probably took it out of the package and hoped to sell it to us later. (He's been out of business for about 20 years now, and is dead also, so no worries anymore!)  |  IP: Logged Frank Angel Film God Posts: 5305 From: Brooklyn NY USA Registered: Dec 1999 posted 07-16-2007 06:10 PM                        Thanks guys, but seems like any of the adaptors that can work will wind up with the same problem that Steve points out -- offsetting the film feed line into or out of the projector. It would require the arm to be repositioned. When I am no longer married to this venue, from then on it will always require a free-lance projectionist to be called in to run the shows during the summer. I can't leave the booth with that kind of an issue that is going to spook a pickup operator. I've got to make it as simple and as least error-prone as possible. Asking a new-be to deal with spindle adaptors and arm repositioning every time we use 6000ft reels is asking for trouble. And quite frankly, I don't want to have other projectionists cursing my name every time they work that booth. We'll go with the existing 5/16th shafts so that 2000ft & 6000ft reels can be used without any arm modification being needed and without projectionists cursing. They can sell the two existing 6000ft reels on ebay. Or exchange then with someone who wants to get rid of a couple of 5/16th shaft 6000fters. Thanks again guys. - And thanks for the pic John -- and yes indeed, that adaptor would create an offset that would require a lot more reposition of the arm than the elongated adjustment slots on the Kelmar are would allow. The adaptor could be machined down more -- by the looks of it, probably more than half the body would have to go in order to make the arms work. Too impractical.  |  IP: Logged Louis Bornwasser Film God Posts: 4441 From: prospect ky usa Registered: Mar 2005 posted 07-16-2007 08:48 PM                        What you really need is to convert the Kelmar reel arms to the same set up that a Christie mut has. That way you can reverse the shaft without losing the alignment reference. Good thinking, Steve! Louis  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 07-16-2007 09:50 PM                     Frank...do you have 8000 series arms or 7000 series? If you have 7000 series arms then you can probably install the 35/70 parts (same casting you currently have). If you are familiar with the Norelco, Century or Kinoton changable spindles...it is the same idea. All one need do is remove the spindle and change it with the size desired, once modified. The part that goes through the bearings and aligns with the projector stays put...just the spindle portion changes. You may have to offset the arm ONCE 17.5mm to get things to line up (and I think Kelmar has the offset plates). The spindle portions are held on by three allen screws...once this system is so modified, it is brain dead simple. Kelmar 35/70 Arms As to easiest spindles to change in history...easy...Kinoton DP-75...has all others beat by a long shot...time to change spindle....1-second...maybe...way cool. Current Kinotons are reasonably fast...loosen three screws and like a bayonet rotate and remove...rotate the new spindle on and snug up the three screws. Again...all of you with the MUT advice...that was not the question. Do you all respond just to see your responses? It just confuses the issue as one has to sift through accurate but irrelevent information. Aren't these forums supposed to be moderated? Steve  |  IP: Logged Michael Moore Expert Film Handler Posts: 188 From: Dover, DE / USA Registered: Jun 2006 posted 07-16-2007 11:20 PM                        Simple question Steve, I never mentioned MUT just for him to make the parts himself. Was what I said irrelevant or useless.  |  IP: Logged

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