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Author Topic: Lettered Id's on heads & tails of Ocean's 13 prints John T. Hendrickson, Jr Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 889 From: Freehold, NJ, USA Registered: Apr 2001 posted 06-07-2007 05:04 PM                     I'm impressed. All three of my prints of Ocean's 13 had distinctive white lettering appearing prior to the start of every reel on the head leader, and immediately after the reel ends, on every tail. Eliminates any reason to have head and tail ID frames left on the leaders. Also should assist newbees to get print make-up correct. Kudos to Technicolor Lab! Doing this on all prints would eliminate a batch of mistakes. Hope this is not an abberation, and that Technicolor will continue this practice. Maybe DeLuxe Labs could follow suit??? Also noted that all three prints were Kodak 2393 stock. Did everyone get the same stock? If so, WB spared no expense on this release.  |  IP: Logged Richard May Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1057 From: Floral Park, NY USA Registered: Aug 2004 posted 06-07-2007 05:11 PM                     It should be done on every print.  |  IP: Logged Daryl C. W. O'Shea Film God Posts: 3977 From: Midland Ontario Canada (where Panavision & IMAX lenses come from) Registered: Jun 2002 posted 06-07-2007 06:34 PM                        quote: John T. Hendrickson, Jr I'm impressed. All three of my prints of Ocean's 13 had distinctive white lettering appearing prior to the start of every reel on the head leader, and immediately after the reel ends, on every tail. Eliminates any reason to have head and tail ID frames left on the leaders. I'm confused. How does lettering on the head leader before the picture starts and after the picture ends on the tail leader help anyone that needs help? Learning to read the DTS time code still seems like the most reliable way... unless you mean that the lettering isn't on the leaders but actually along side the projected frames.  |  IP: Logged John T. Hendrickson, Jr Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 889 From: Freehold, NJ, USA Registered: Apr 2001 posted 06-07-2007 07:17 PM                     Sorry Daryl. You have to see it to understand what I'm talking about. I can't explain it any better than I have. Sorry for your confusion.  |  IP: Logged John Hawkinson Film God Posts: 2273 From: Cambridge, MA, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 06-07-2007 07:59 PM                     Come on, John, you can do better. Is the marking on the leader, or actually on the movie proper? If the former, how does it help for the problem of knowing whether the previous theatre to platter the print attached the heads and tails to the proper reel? --jhawk  |  IP: Logged Mike Heenan Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1896 From: Scottsdale, AZ, USA Registered: Mar 2000 posted 06-07-2007 09:04 PM                     Maybe someone can post a picture or scan so we can understand it.  |  IP: Logged Kenneth Wuepper Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1026 From: Saginaw, MI, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 06-07-2007 10:09 PM                     Daryl, How about teaching a crash course in DTS time code reading? KEN  |  IP: Logged Daryl C. W. O'Shea Film God Posts: 3977 From: Midland Ontario Canada (where Panavision & IMAX lenses come from) Registered: Jun 2002 posted 06-08-2007 12:04 AM                        The last four bits of the 20 bits between mark positions indicate the reel number. Look for a series of frames that the first bit toggles between 0 and 1 and use one of those frames. If you find a frame that has more than one bit difference it's the title serial number. A one is indicated by a transition (a small white dot before or after a slightly longer black spot) while a 0 is indicated by no transition (a long white OR black spot). A sync mark is indicated by the combination of a really long white and black spot.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 06-08-2007 05:14 AM                     But even as easy as that is to identify, there will still be people leaving ID frames on the leaders!  |  IP: Logged Kenneth Wuepper Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1026 From: Saginaw, MI, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 06-08-2007 05:45 AM                     Daryl, Thanks for that wonderful information. I will print that image and post it on the rewind bench. Best system for identifying reels I have ever seen. KEN  |  IP: Logged Matthew Jaro Film Handler Posts: 74 From: Gaithersburg, MD, USA Registered: Jul 2003 posted 06-08-2007 11:13 AM                        Reading the DTS codes is much easier than I thought it would be. It is really a foolproof way of identifying reels. However, some explanations please: I notice that the frame number is 16 bits long. This limits it to 65,536 frames per reel. There are 30 DTS frames per second - so this is only 36 minutes of film. Is the frame ID variable length if necessary, or do the frame numbers repeat? I also thought that the title was encoded to keep the unit from playing mismatched films and disks. While it's clear how the DTS codes eliminate the need for ID frames, I'm confused as to how white lettering on leaders and trailers eliminates the need for an ID frame. Please explain this or admit that you made a mistake.  |  IP: Logged Darryl Spicer Film God Posts: 3250 From: Lexington, KY, USA Registered: Dec 2000 posted 06-08-2007 11:24 AM                    Just a warning about those splice markers. The lettering appears directly in the center of the frame. Not near the frameline where the cut would be made. This is important to know if you have fade ins or fade outs that do not have visible frame lines. People will still leave I.D. frames because from what I could tell the letters didn't really indicate what reel it was.  |  IP: Logged Daryl C. W. O'Shea Film God Posts: 3977 From: Midland Ontario Canada (where Panavision & IMAX lenses come from) Registered: Jun 2002 posted 06-08-2007 11:25 AM                        After 65,536 frames / 36.4 minutes the DTS timecode would have to advance to the next reel. So if you had a print that for some reason had three 40 minute reels, reel 1 would be timecoded reels 1 and 2, reel 2 would be timecoded reels 3 and 4 and reel 3 would be timecoded reels 5 and 6. Every tenth frame or thereabouts is the title serial number rather than the frame and reel count. BTW... reading a frame number off of each tail leader is handy for determining running time when you've got a print that doesn't look to be the length you've been told.  |  IP: Logged Dominic Espinosa Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1172 From: Boulder Creek, CA. Registered: Jan 2004 posted 06-08-2007 11:26 AM                     quote: Matthew Jaro I also thought that the title was encoded to keep the unit from playing mismatched films and disks. Print serial number != print number, no? My print only had the markings on 3/6 reels oddly enough. The markings he's referring to are "Reel # Head/Tail Splice Here" with a fancy lil arrow. The funny thing was Reel 1 had this mark, with a line right across the frame line. Perfect! But one of the later reels (4 maybe?) ends over black and the splice here mark has no line! I didn't find it at all useful myself, just cool. It would certainly help to keep som newbs from lobbing off 5 frames at the tail but it won't stop most booth monkeys. Screw what the leader says...I personally take an ID frame on the head and none on the tail.  |  IP: Logged Daryl C. W. O'Shea Film God Posts: 3977 From: Midland Ontario Canada (where Panavision & IMAX lenses come from) Registered: Jun 2002 posted 06-08-2007 11:36 AM                        quote: Dominic Espinosa Print serial number != print number, no? The serial number encoded is the DTS title serial number (the serial number you see listed on the DTS disc). It's the same on all prints (all printed from copies of the same soundtrack master).  |  IP: Logged

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