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Author Topic: Increasing spool capacity on Westars Andy Frodsham Expert Film Handler Posts: 238 From: Stoke on Trent, Staffs, UK Registered: Nov 2006 posted 12-03-2006 05:58 AM                     We have two Westar machines (installed in 1974) with 2000ft spool boxes. We want to increase the spool capacity to 6000ft on both machines. What is the most economical way to do this? I understand that Kelmar supply spool arms but I have also been told that the existing reel arms can be extended using spacers and longer belts! Any ideas guys?  |  IP: Logged David Graham Rose Expert Film Handler Posts: 187 From: Cambridge, UK Registered: Sep 2002 posted 12-03-2006 06:08 AM                     Greetings Andy Why not try getting in touch with my friends at Bell Theatre Systems? This is right down their street. They are at 020 8238 6000. They will know what will do the job. From Cambridge, Good afternoon. David  |  IP: Logged Pete Naples Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1565 From: Dunfermline, Scotland Registered: Feb 2001 posted 12-03-2006 11:36 AM                     Would be one hell of a spacer! I've seen inch or so blocks put in to allow better clearance for change overs etc, but never anything to take a 2000' spool box out to being able to carry a 6000' spool. Also the diameter of the drive pulleys on the take-ups is different, according to the size of spool in use. As you rightly say, you can get Kelmar reel arms, they are not cheap. I reckon the cheapest way would be to obtain a original 6000' Westrex boxes, or maybe 5000' and chop the sides off. Sadly I weighed in trailer load of such things just a couple of weeks ago.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 12-03-2006 01:10 PM                     Depending on the sizing of the 2000' spool boxes, removing the "cans" and installing a film cleaner bracket between the arm and projector can sometimes be enough room to accomplish what you need. That would leave you only needing to purchase the two lower arms.  |  IP: Logged Bernard Tonks Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 619 From: Cranleigh, Surrey, England Registered: Apr 2001 posted 12-03-2006 01:48 PM                     I've never seen a Westar projector with 2000' spoolboxes, were they not always 3000' capacity? I worked on the first pair of Westar's installed in the UK at the old Playhouse Hampstead, and they could hold 3000' of film, as could the Western Electric Universal base soundheads. Look for a pair of Westar 5000' spoolboxes used for 3D, and take the boxes off which will then hold 6000' of polyestar stock, as Pete said.  |  IP: Logged Andy Frodsham Expert Film Handler Posts: 238 From: Stoke on Trent, Staffs, UK Registered: Nov 2006 posted 12-03-2006 02:03 PM                     Thanks for the replies chaps! And yes, you are indeed correct, Bernard, the spoolboxes have a 3000ft capacity (OK for joining two smallish parts together)! In reality, however, the opportunities to fill a 3000ft spool are fairly rare! I'd happily go with the 5000ft Westrex boxes if any were available! I think it likely that we will have to buy either the Kelmar arms or similar devices made by Strong. Next question: Anyone know of a good supplier of 6000ft spools? I suppose these will need to be floating hub? Thanks once again for all your help.  |  IP: Logged David Graham Rose Expert Film Handler Posts: 187 From: Cambridge, UK Registered: Sep 2002 posted 12-03-2006 03:04 PM                     Greetings Once again I can refer you to my friends at Bell theatre systems. I recently bought some EZ hub 6000' spools from them. They work a treat! From Cambridge, Good night David  |  IP: Logged Ben Wales Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 602 From: Southampton. England Registered: Jul 99 posted 12-03-2006 04:31 PM                     You could also consider the Plastic Cinemaccanica 6000ft Spools available from Sound Associates Ltd, they are fairly cheap and have several Spindle adapters supplied with them. I have used these on a Westrex 5000 Projector with no problems.  |  IP: Logged Andy Frodsham Expert Film Handler Posts: 238 From: Stoke on Trent, Staffs, UK Registered: Nov 2006 posted 12-03-2006 04:31 PM                     Greetings David, Thanks for your two replies. I have contacted the company you mentioned via email and I'll also give them a call during the week. Many thanks for your responses.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 12-03-2006 05:11 PM                     Ben, roughly how much do those cost (in US dollars)?  |  IP: Logged Stephen Furley Film God Posts: 3059 From: Coulsdon, Croydon, England Registered: May 2002 posted 12-03-2006 05:15 PM                     quote: Ben Wales You could also consider the Plastic Cinemaccanica 6000ft Spools available from Sound Associates Ltd, they are fairly cheap and have several Spindle adapters supplied with them. A lot of places seem to use these; the interchangeable centres are useful if you need to move prints around between systems with different spindle sizes. However, I find that even if not removed they tend to work loose after a time; they either fall out, or rotate slightly, which at least with 9mm spindles means the spool won't fit on, which is annoying when you're holding a heavy spool overhead. Wrapping a layer of masking tape around the centre, and knocking it back in with a mallet or soft hammer seems to do the trick, at least for a while. The other thing I don't like about them is that it's difficult to see how close to the end of a reel you are with them. They're slightly larger than most 6ks, I was running a complete 85 minute feature, on polyester, on one yesterday; it was slightly over the edge, but ran ok. I still find 2k spools much easier and more convienient to work with than larger ones though. Why did the Westars have 3000 foot boxes? They would have been too small to join two 2000 foot parts, on triacetate, and the regulations still displayed in the Phoenix, east Finchley, though no longer applicable, specify that spoolboxes shall be constructed so as to contain no more than 2050 feet of film. Do these 3000 foot boxes post-date nitrate? If so, then surely just about everything would have been supplied in 2000 foot double reels by that time, so I can't see the point in going up to anything less than 4k. I think I've only once seen any 3000 foot spools. You might be able to fit two parts into them on polyester today, a lot of films seem to be printed in rather short reels today, but that obviously wasn't the original purpose. edit. Thought that's just occured to me; could it have been for mag striped Cinemascope prints?  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 12-03-2006 05:31 PM                     Stephen, can you measure the diameter of those reels in inches?  |  IP: Logged Bernard Tonks Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 619 From: Cranleigh, Surrey, England Registered: Apr 2001 posted 12-03-2006 07:29 PM                     The Cinemeccanica plastic 6k spools are suitable for some projectors, print building and ideal for moving films in transit. However due to their construction they are very wide spools and cannot be used on Westar or Ross spoolboxes, even with the boxes removed. I'm projecting tomorrow so I will try and take some pictures of the spool. To answer Stephen's question, the Western Electric Universal base soundheads of 1929 could have accommodated 3000’ had it been allowed and spools available, as films at that time were supplied in 1000’ reels. Same applies to the Westar projector in the UK (Century in the States), first manufactured in 1947 during the nitrate days. I seem to remember in the 1960s that there was some discussion of films being distributed with 3000’ reels. During my time with Westar's for many years in three cinemas, I also had 3000’ spools which came in very handy for joining so many small reels together, particularly when the last reel was only 1000'.  |  IP: Logged Robert Throop Master Film Handler Posts: 412 From: Vernon, NY USA Registered: Jun 99 posted 12-03-2006 08:11 PM                     The 18 inch (3000') magazines were fairly common on American projectors even in silent days. Bob  |  IP: Logged Louis Bornwasser Film God Posts: 4441 From: prospect ky usa Registered: Mar 2005 posted 12-03-2006 08:51 PM                        3000 ft magazines were common as far back as W.E. Universal bases and were actually required to run 30 minute TV shows back when film was the originating media. (I Love Lucy, etc.)Louis  |  IP: Logged

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