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Author Topic: new startup cinema needs some educated numbers Tim Massett Film Handler Posts: 26 From: duluth, mn Registered: Dec 2005 posted 10-13-2006 01:54 PM                     hiya, i am putting a business plan together for a five screen that recently closed and would like to know what i can expect to spend ROUGHLY on projection/sound/ speakers... i will be going used but i just need a general idea. i have heard the number being around 100,000 a screen but with all the used equipment out there i would assume this number could be a bit lower. i know this is a loaded question and i apologize for that in advance. just trying to get an educated guess. cheers, tim  |  IP: Logged Aaron Sisemore Flaming Ribs beat Reeses Peanut Butter Cups any day! Posts: 3061 From: Rockwall TX USA Registered: Sep 1999 posted 10-13-2006 01:57 PM                     Read the rules about teaser topic titles before this one gets deleted. Back on topic: Short answer: The five screen closed for a very good reason. And I seriously doubt that it was because the previous operator simply grew tired of running it and simply closed the doors. walk away. Quickly. -Aaron  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 10-13-2006 01:59 PM                     Also, for $100,000 a screen you can have DAMNED nice brand new equipment. If you just want junk to produce some kind of picture and sound, you could probably squeeze out of it for 1/4 of that. Of course if you go with junk, you won't do any business because people aren't going to patronize you for a show they can do better at home.  |  IP: Logged Tim Massett Film Handler Posts: 26 From: duluth, mn Registered: Dec 2005 posted 10-13-2006 02:03 PM                     i certainly don't want junk and i apologize for the topic headline it just stands for wild ass guess. yes the 5 screen closed because it was a dump. i know it's not the smartest thing to get in to but i have been running a single screen here for a few years and will be opening up something along the lines of the alamo drafthouse where i got my start when that first opened. cheers, tim  |  IP: Logged Cameron Glendinning Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 845 From: West Ryde, Sydney, NSW Australia Registered: Dec 2005 posted 10-13-2006 07:28 PM                     Ok Things not worth compromising Lenses/ New ones only avoid cheap lenses like sankor Amps/ quality second hand available QSC is very good Processors/ quality 2nd hand Dolby CP55 and beyond or Panastereo Digital Sound/ DTS is quality and affordable 2nd hand Speakers/ best not compromise buy new/ surrounds speakers the quality is very very important Acoustics/, deaden backstage with fiberglass Seats, they must be comfortable The projector, well I work with 30 year old projectors and the image is great!!! Century, Simplex, Cinemacannica and kinoton/Philips would have spare parts available. Remember to upgrade to red readers. Lamphouse/ bigger is better!  |  IP: Logged Mike Blakesley Film God Posts: 12767 From: Forsyth, Montana Registered: Jun 99 posted 10-13-2006 08:43 PM                        Tim - quote: Tim Massett the 5 screen closed because it was a dump. So will you have to spend more to make it "not a dump" than it's worth? And, how long will it take to educate the people around that area that it's no longer a dump? You'll have to be prepared to lose money for a while while you work on the place's image. Also - just because you explained what your title meant, doesn't cut it. You have to CHANGE IT to something people can tell what the hell it is without having to look. Suggestion: "Opening a closed 5-screen: Need suggestions"  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 10-13-2006 09:29 PM                     Tim, you will be booted on your next post if you do not comply with the rules regarding teaser subject titles. Fix it before you post again.  |  IP: Logged Ron Curran Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 504 From: Springwood NSW Australia Registered: Feb 2006 posted 10-13-2006 11:09 PM                        Tim, don't be too proud to ask HOW to fix your title.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 10-14-2006 04:56 AM                     Nope, he can read the freakin' FAQ/rules page to get that info.  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 10-14-2006 07:07 AM                     quote: Aaron Sisemore The five screen closed for a very good reason. And I seriously doubt that it was because the previous operator simply grew tired of running it and simply closed the doors. walk away. Quickly. Aaron, Thats really poor advice and comming from a man whose chain just signed to go digial and now runs super platters and Cinecitta's! First you need to study the demographics of your area and be sure the population can and will support the theater. Alot of the info you need to put together a sound buisness plan is available from local government and NATO. Have a buisness plan going in that is solid and you'll stay in buisness and become profitable. I've seen a MANY a poorly run location shutter and close down only to be re-opened by someone else that had good plans gong in and stuck to them. Almost all of my customers that have re-opened a location have done very well. Some of them were Carmikes that had the worst of reputations. There are places that existing theaters were built that will not fly but if there is a movie going population base there and the place is nice and has unique things other local theaters don't have then people will come. Experiment with unique concessions and find out what people want... but also stock the ones that everyone else does so there are familiar goodies too. Cater to kids and build up a matinee base with kids shows on weelends.... you'll sell lots of concessions once you build that up! Re: Projection equipment... Don't waste your $$ on all new gear. In the very near future some of it will be hauled to the dump anyway. Definately invest in new sound equipment that is top notch, used projection gear that is also top notch and the best new seating your dollar can buy. Sight, sound, and seats are the three most important ingredients. Select a dealer VERY CAREFULLY... there are alot of fly by nights and scheisters very near you! Lastly keep your place spotless...clean enough to eat off the floor! Mark  |  IP: Logged Tim Massett Film Handler Posts: 26 From: duluth, mn Registered: Dec 2005 posted 10-14-2006 09:39 AM                     not only did i make the error in my title but i forgot to log out as well. apologies to all. thanks for the info... do you folks find that iceco are a reasonable company to buy from? to address mike's concern regarding how long it would take the community to be aware that a new company has moved in... i have been running a single screen in town for the last two years, programming for the film festival here for the last 4 and am very close with all the media folks. they are all super anxious to see this happen. it wouldn't take more than a month to get the word out. i can't imagine that it would even take that long because the two papers here would be putting out teaser articles during the renvovation process. the beach community doesn't have a theatre now and the income level out there is very high. the theatre closed just a month ago. it was the dickenson theatre chain. what a sad little company that is. they bought the dump from another evil cinema destroyer STARNET cinemas 3-4 years ago and i guess just didn't have any interest in that theatre. from the lobby to presentation to the food/drink choices this will not only be a new experience for folks in this cinema, that was formerly a dump but it will re-define what attending the cinema should be compared to the mega-mart plexes that, to me, are simply soul crushing entities. cheers, tim  |  IP: Logged Scott Norwood Film God Posts: 8146 From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 10-14-2006 09:53 AM                        You need to provide more information. Are you just interested in the equipment costs, or are you including installation and a service contract? Are you including the costs of screens, screen frames, and masking systems? What about acoustical treatment for the auditoria? What types of films will you be showing? If you are an art house, then digital sound is probably not a necessity, but support for Academy and 1.66 aspect ratios is. Do you need video and/or 16mm and/or 70mm capability, or will you be running 35mm only? Do you want changeover capability on one or more screens, or do you want platters for everything? Presumably you will want some sort of automation system for every screen, and there is a wide variety of equipment with a similar variety of capabilities and costs. In addition to the equipment for each screen, you will also need some general booth equipment (rewind benches, splicers, reels, reel cabinets, etc.) and spare parts. You will probably also want a service contract for the equipment.  |  IP: Logged Tim Massett Film Handler Posts: 26 From: duluth, mn Registered: Dec 2005 posted 10-14-2006 10:09 AM                     You need to provide more information. like i said before i know this is a loaded topic and i apologize for asking in such a vague way. The screens in the auditoriums seem fine to me. The prior company ripped out all the projection and sound equipment so i am just interested in getting a approximate cost per screen. like i said, i had read that a 100 grand for each auditorium was the standard but that was in a publication written years ago. the only additions to the auditoriums i need are tables, surround speakers and front speakers. the booths need everything from 6 projection heads, 6 lamphouses, 6 soundheads, 6 pedestals and 5 sound systems. i hear dts is a reasonable way to go. the theatre i run now just has dolby sr audio and it isn't too bad. it's not going to be a art house. well...i guess so but 4 screens will be full on studio fare and one screen for the smaller specialty film. films from the warner independents, fox searchlight et al. i will also be providing special retrospectives, midnights, and original programming such as THE BUFFY SING ALONGS and such. i have a couple old timers that will be working with me to install everything. i do want changeover capability for one auditorium, i do have a nice eiki 16mm 2000 watt pedestal projector to screen the occasional print, video will be in all screens as well .i have not looked into the big digital video systems and i know that will be something that i will have to get into down the line but it all seems up in the air, no? again, apologies for giving everyone a headache with my naive query. i guess there is no reasonable way to estimate the costs. cheers, tim  |  IP: Logged Demetris Thoupis Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1240 From: Aradippou, Larnaca, Cyprus Registered: Apr 2001 posted 10-14-2006 02:06 PM                     Well, If you want to be really economical you could try the following solution: DTS XD10P or USL JSD80 Processors (Both equally the same features) which are quite cheap and offer good sound reproduction in analog and if happy you can upgrade in Digital later either via DA20s for Dolby Digital or DTS 6D (used) or XD10 (new)for DTS. JBL 2 way Screen Array series with 3310 surrounds. They can give pretty damn good sound when properly equalised (find a guy from these forums to do it for you. I am sure they will make a damn better job than any installation company in regards to service,installation,equalisation). Crown Series Amps which are very good combined with JBLs. Of course if you want the best go for QSC amps. You pay for quality and reliability although Crown amps are very very good. Kinoton FP20A projectors with lamphouses which are economical and very good quality or Cinemeccanicas V5's new or Used. Actually any Cinemeccanica projector will keep running long after we are all dead! You will compromise a bit on the supposed shaky picture on the Victoria projectors but no one will be able to see it except Mark And for starters you can either get used platters or skip them and get your projectors with tower options. The Cinemeccanica has the V5-BS version which allows you to incorporate up to 5000m reels at each side of the projector with optional rewind capability. The Kinoton you would have to go with the FP25D series to accomodate that. Well for starters I think that is about half the price you have read for each screen and considering mainly of new equipment. Don't spare expenses on the lenses, lamphouse and speakers. Especially these prefer to buy new ones. Well good luck to you. Best Regards Demetris  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 10-14-2006 04:30 PM                     quote: Demetris Thoupis DTS XD10P or USL JSD80 Processors (Both equally the same features) which are quite cheap and offer good sound reproduction in analog and if happy you can upgrade in Digital later either via DA20s for Dolby Digital or DTS 6D (used) or XD10 (new)for DTS. DTS is probably the best bang for the buck and the JSD-80 will also work with D-Cinema with an additinal card. I would stay away fomr the JBL Screen Disarray series... leaves alot to be desired. You will have to have the dealer you select come and do a site survey of your location to determine what speakers will be adaquate to cover your rooms. DA-20's are long sold out and no more are being made. So if you want SRD then it either new CP-650's or used DA-20's if you can find them. quote: Demetris Thoupis Crown Series Amps which are very good combined with JBLs. Crowns do sound good but they have the dummest fan control system on the planet. The amps idle quite hot... so hot that you can't put your hand on the power tranny after one has been idling for 6 hours.... The fan only comes on at very high temperatures. The power supply caps are right nest to the extremely hot running tranny and will fail alot faster than normal. We have one customer that has Crowns and we replaced the factory fans with full time fans. Reliability has gone way up on them since we did that. Projection.... Get Simplex X-L... hardly my favorite machine but they will be reliable for you. In 5 years time you'll be displaying one in the lobby and the rest will be hauled to the dump. Lamphouses... Used Super Lum-Ex is good or some other equivelent lamphouse. If you install switching rectifiers be absolutely sure to install surge supressors on the booth panels. Lenses... Used Schneider or ISCO Automation... Used Kelmar or Xetron. Stay away from High Tech, Raven LAbs, and any CFS gear. Platter... Hopefully Christie AW-3 but Strongs are ok too if the budget constrains. Mark  |  IP: Logged

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