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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » quick guide to 35mm optical (mono vs. Dolby stereo) & Dolby Analog NR formats by year (Page 1)

 
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Author Topic: quick guide to 35mm optical (mono vs. Dolby stereo) & Dolby Analog NR formats by year
Brian Dooda
Film Handler

Posts: 16
From: Brooklyn, New York / USA
Registered: Aug 2006

- posted 09-19-2006 01:25 PM      Profile for Brian Dooda   Email Brian Dooda   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Guide to Optical Sound Formats (Mono vs. Dolby Stereo)

pre 1927 – Probably Silent, very few exceptions
1927-1975 - Mono**
1975-1985 – probably Mono, few Stereo
1985-1987 – 50/50 Mono or Stereo
post 1987 – probably Stereo

* A Stereo or Mono print will both suffer some quality if played
through the wrong format, but if you are uncertain of a
print, it is best to play back in Mono.
** Although not Dolby Stereo, other "stereo" formats did exist on
some major Hollywood films during these years, the most
popular being Perspecta Sound (1954-1957) and Magnetic
stereo (peaking between 1955-1965).

Guide to Dolby Analog NR Formats (A-type vs. SR-type)

1975-1987 – A-type noise reduction
1987-1995 – probably A-type, few SR-type
1995-1997 – 50/50 A-type or SR-type
post 1997 – probably SR-type

* All prints with a Dolby Digital track (introduced in 1992)
use a SR-type optical sound track
* After 1987 a stereo print could be A-type or SR-type.
There is no way to tell just by looking at the track.
It must be labelled. If you are not certain a stereo
print is A or SR, it is best to play it with A-type
noise reduction.

The years and probabilities of formats are based on figures reported to me by the Dolby librarian of types of sound formats produced each year worldwide. I compared that with figures of films produced annually from film almanacs and focused the years around domestic releases.

[ 09-25-2006, 12:48 PM: Message edited by: Brian Dooda ]

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Charles Greenlee
Jedi Master Film Handler

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From: Savannah, Ga, U.S.
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- posted 09-20-2006 12:34 AM      Profile for Charles Greenlee   Author's Homepage   Email Charles Greenlee   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
On a side note, though this is a valuable, and potentially instructional thread, I'd like to add another entry.

1940 - Fantasound (RCA and Disney). Features 3 descreet channels and a control channel on a dedicated film. The control channel allowed the 3 sound channels to be panned between 2 speakers each, emulating 6 channels. The original surround system.

I add this for factual note, not that anyone will use a Fantasound system, or run into a print. BTW, if you do run into a vintage 1940 print of Fantasia, it will have a mono backup on the print. Doubt you'll ever find the soundtrack film for it though.

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Leo Enticknap
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- posted 09-20-2006 02:49 AM      Profile for Leo Enticknap   Author's Homepage   Email Leo Enticknap   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Brian Dooda
pre 1927 – Silent
There are De Forest Phonofilm variable density tracks which survive from at least October 1922, though admittedly, the system was not widespread. Derivatives and ripoffs of De Forest technology (e.g. early variants of the Theodore Case system which eventually became Fox Movietone, and Powers Cinephone) also predate 1927.

quote: Brian Dooda
1927-1975 - Mono
Which subdivides into:

1. Variable density tracks mastered using a light source of variable intensity (Aeo-Light and derivatives) - had effectively dropped out of use by the mid-30s;
2. VD tracks mastered using a constant light source and variable aperture (Western Electric) - dropped out of use for mastering and rerecording by the late 30s, but remained in widespread use for release printing well into the 60s;
3. Variable area recording (initially RCA Photophone), which gradually became more sophisticated during the middle of the twentieth century and is still the principal means of analogue optical recording.

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Monte L Fullmer
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- posted 09-20-2006 03:04 AM      Profile for Monte L Fullmer   Email Monte L Fullmer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Brian Dooda
A Stereo or Mono print will both suffer some quality if played
through the wrong format, but if you are uncertain of a
print, it is best to play back in Mono.
Stereo processors has the ability to determine what soundtrack format is on the film and will automatically switch to that format.

Never heard of a "dolby librarian.."

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Frank Angel
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- posted 09-20-2006 10:10 AM      Profile for Frank Angel   Author's Homepage   Email Frank Angel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Monte L Fullmer
Stereo processors has the ability to determine what soundtrack format is on the film and will automatically switch to that format.
Monte, you mean between analog and digital, not between SR or A, yes?

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Christopher Seo
Jedi Master Film Handler

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- posted 09-20-2006 10:28 AM      Profile for Christopher Seo   Email Christopher Seo   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well, Kintek processors could automatically switch to stereo from mono if they detected a difference between Lt and Rt, but I'm sure they couldn't distinguish between A-type and SR.

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Brian Dooda
Film Handler

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- posted 09-20-2006 10:51 AM      Profile for Brian Dooda   Email Brian Dooda   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The guide is really intended as a quick reference for projectionist working in art house theaters as to the odds of an optical print being stereo or mono and in the case of a stereo print whether it's A or SR type noise reduction. It's certainly not a history of sound formats. There are exceptions to the pre-1927 Silent date but I think that date is generally accepted for major releases. I really should'nt even have included the blurb about magnetic sound but I thought in the case of an optical sound re-release those films would have a stereo master. But the guide mostly applies to original release dates since a re-release can be remastered.

Stereo processors has the ability to determine what soundtrack format is on the film and will automatically switch to that format.

The processors I work with are the CP650 and CP200. I'm not aware that either automatically switches to stereo or mono and in my experience the 200 will stay on whatever format assigned.

Never heard of a "dolby librarian.."

The Dolby Librarians name is Tamara and she is very nice and helpful. She works in the San Francisco office. Librarians are the true defenders of freedom. They Rule.

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Charles Greenlee
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- posted 09-20-2006 11:18 AM      Profile for Charles Greenlee   Author's Homepage   Email Charles Greenlee   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Edison did experiament with sound by rigging up a phonograph to his kinetoscope, but it didn't take off. Interestingly enough, (was it the vitascope?) the first wide relese motion picture system with sound used a phonograph started in synch with the projector. The original sound on disc steup. [Big Grin] Though I don't remember the date one that one.

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Leo Enticknap
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- posted 09-20-2006 11:45 AM      Profile for Leo Enticknap   Author's Homepage   Email Leo Enticknap   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Edison's system was called Kinetophone (based on acoustic recording using cylinders) and the Warners' disc-based system was Vitaphone. It had effectively dropped out of use as a production format by the back end of 1929, although discs continued to be supplied for theatre playback (with an optical sound positive being played into the disc cutter to master the records) for a few years afterwards. Although it used discs as the carrier, though, Vitaphone was based on electric amplification. Disc-based systems go back almost as far as film itself, but most were limited to 3-4 minutes' duration and the recording and playback was acoustic.

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Monte L Fullmer
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..and whats funny is that with DTS .. going back to the sound on disc format..just in a better form.

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Stephen Furley
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- posted 09-20-2006 02:59 PM      Profile for Stephen Furley   Email Stephen Furley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Brian Dooda
pre 1927 – Silent
Eugene Lauste was recording, and reproducing, optical sound before the First World War, the system was really only experimental, but he did make combined prints, and demonstrations were given to public audiences.

http://www.amps.net/newsletters/issue22/22_lauste.htm

Both VD and VA systems have been around since the earliest days of optical sound, amd both were in use alongside each other for many years.

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Charles Greenlee
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quote: Monte L Fullmer
..and whats funny is that with DTS .. going back to the sound on disc format..just in a better form.
Exactly my point, Monte. Thanks for picking up on it.

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Monte L Fullmer
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Interesting in all of this, but if one really wants to pick up on a lot of technical zoom, chek out this sound section page of this well-known site to us film tekkies.

-Monte

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Charles Greenlee
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- posted 09-21-2006 01:23 AM      Profile for Charles Greenlee   Author's Homepage   Email Charles Greenlee   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes, been there. Although it could be set up to be more astetically appealing, it has alot of information on it. Though I would love to get my grubby hands on a repro of that Fantasia poster. Anyhow, back to the main event.

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Michael Schaffer
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Boardwalk Hotel?"

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quote: Leo Enticknap
There are De Forest Phonofilm variable density tracks which survive from at least October 1922, though admittedly, the system was not widespread. Derivatives and ripoffs of De Forest technology (e.g. early variants of the Theodore Case system which eventually became Fox Movietone, and Powers Cinephone) also predate 1927.
"Redende Bilder" (talking pictures) were first shown publically in Berlin on September 17, 1922 using a process called Triergon. The patent was then sold to the US where it became the basis for Fox Movietone.

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