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Author Topic: Horizontal jitter in picture on a Kinoton FP-23 Mitchell Dvoskin Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1869 From: West Milford, NJ, USA Registered: Jan 2001 posted 09-18-2006 01:01 PM                     I have a Kinoton FP-23 that has some slight horizontal jitter in the picture, most noticable when running scope films, although exclusively. There is nothing obviously loose. The only thing that may be an issue is that the lateral guide rollers at the top and bottom of the film gate are spring loaded on both sides (soundtrack/non-soundtrack), as opposed to being spring loaded on one side to push the film against a fixed surface on the other. I am assuming this is correct as designed, but this is the only FP-23 I have ever seen. Another thought was that the film was buckling in the gate, but with a curved gate and only a 700 watt xenon, this seems unlikely. Turning up the gate tension did not seem to eliminate the problem. Any suggestions for eliminating this problem would be appreciated.  |  IP: Logged Dave Macaulay Film God Posts: 2321 From: Toronto, Canada Registered: Apr 2001 posted 09-18-2006 02:35 PM                     If the discs are clean and working properly you shouldn't have much lateral motion. Check how the intermittent teeth are engaging the sprocket holes, the pins should be centred in the holes. If the sprocket is off centre then you will have lateral movement in the aperture. I have seen the springs on one side (FP20) replaced with metal spacers. I couldn't see any jitter problem with the springs and the spacers also gave a good steady picture.  |  IP: Logged Michael Schaffer "Where is the Boardwalk Hotel?" Posts: 4143 From: Boston, MA Registered: Apr 2002 posted 09-18-2006 02:39 PM                        The lateral guide rollers could be simply worn, or the springs could be worn or there could be dirt stuck inside. But I guess you already checked that. It could also be that the intermittent has some lateral play and that is what you are seeing. When the machine is running, and you press your thumb against the side of the intermittent sprocket - but veeeery carefully, you don't want it to eat your thumb! -, does that influence the horizontal jitter? It has been a long, long while since I last saw an FP-23 in the flesh, so I don't remember how the intermittent movement is mounted in the machine and if the same adjustments as with later models can be done to minimize that. Sometimes the intermittent sprocket is simply loose and then travels horizontally. Maybe you could post a close-up picture of the intermittent and the outboard side of it.  |  IP: Logged Mitchell Dvoskin Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1869 From: West Milford, NJ, USA Registered: Jan 2001 posted 09-18-2006 06:48 PM                     I had previously check everything Micheal and Dave suggested, nothing obviously wrong. Intermittent tight, guide discs not particulary worn, springs good, no dirt, etc.  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 09-18-2006 06:50 PM                     Is the endplay adjustment too loose  |  IP: Logged Mitchell Dvoskin Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1869 From: West Milford, NJ, USA Registered: Jan 2001 posted 09-18-2006 07:03 PM                     Is the endplay adjustment too loose I am not familiar with that terminology. What is the endplay adjustment?  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 09-18-2006 07:16 PM                     there is a slot screw in the outboard bearing that sets the amount of endplay it should be just snug you can see it in the centre of the sprocket outboard bearing support  |  IP: Logged Robert John Jeromson Master Film Handler Posts: 264 From: Auckland, New Zealand Registered: Jul 2004 posted 09-18-2006 07:18 PM                     In your photograph there is a screw adjustment on the end of the sprocket, it is locked in place by a hex bolt. This is the end play adjustment Gordon is referring to. Undo the hex bolt and gently tighten the endplay to see if it fixes the problem. Is the framing in the machine clunky? Does moving the framing knob or holding it on full lock to one side fix the problem? Worst case scenario you may wish to investigate having the machines framing bush replaced.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 09-18-2006 08:53 PM                     Since it is lateral...check with the film running and the skate is closed...see if the film is curling around the skate where the lateral guides contact the film...if the skate is worn where the lateral guide discs contact the film and the film curels (the runners will beveled from the film wear instead of having a sharp 90-degree angle to them , it will do the sideways schimmy. Change the skate and all will be well. From the photo...the runner strips look well worn too. Just for grins, change both the runners and the skates (the runners look like they had already be transposed).  |  IP: Logged Michael Schaffer "Where is the Boardwalk Hotel?" Posts: 4143 From: Boston, MA Registered: Apr 2002 posted 09-18-2006 09:14 PM                        Right, and when even that doesn't help, go on to quote: Robert John Jeromson In your photograph there is a screw adjustment on the end of the sprocket, it is locked in place by a hex bolt. This is the end play adjustment Gordon is referring to. Undo the hex bolt and gently tighten the endplay to see if it fixes the problem. That's where I was heading, too. But I simply couldn't remember if the FP-23 already has the same intermittent casing as later machines. It does. In that case, loosen that set screw which should be located at approx. 8 o'clock in the side of the circular endplate in which the slotted screw is set. Grab the framing knowb and frame all the way up or down. Insert a flat head screw driver in the slot and loosen the screw. Rattle the framing knob. You should feel the feedback on the screwdriver. Tighten the screw gently until it is just fingertight, and rattling the framing knob does not appear to move the intermittent laterally. Do not overtighten the screw brutally. Then go back on the screw CCW just a tiny little bit, less than "5 minutes". Tighten the set screw properly. That usually takes care of the problem.  |  IP: Logged Mitchell Dvoskin Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1869 From: West Milford, NJ, USA Registered: Jan 2001 posted 09-19-2006 09:17 AM                     While I am tinkering, what is the proper proceedure for replacing those lateral guide discs? I have spares, just not sure how to get in there and change them.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 09-19-2006 11:18 AM                     I would be more than amazed if the ceramic discs need to be changed. I have seen their mechanism rust up though. To remove them...merely grab on and pull them straight out to you. To put new ones on...merely push them in until the points seat in the middle of the disc...it is that simple. Anyway...make sure the discs are seated and still have spring action. If they don't you might have a job in front of you. I always lubricate the spring and piston (point) area to keep them from freezing up. Try the skate and runner strip plan if you have them. Steve  |  IP: Logged Mitchell Dvoskin Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1869 From: West Milford, NJ, USA Registered: Jan 2001 posted 09-19-2006 02:54 PM                     Thank everyone, I'll give your suggestions a try this weekend and let you know.  |  IP: Logged Michael Schaffer "Where is the Boardwalk Hotel?" Posts: 4143 From: Boston, MA Registered: Apr 2002 posted 09-20-2006 02:14 AM                        Man, what kind of a job/cinema is that where you have the luxury of waiting until next weekend "to try things out"?  |  IP: Logged Mitchell Dvoskin Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1869 From: West Milford, NJ, USA Registered: Jan 2001 posted 09-20-2006 08:08 AM                     The projector is in a private screening room and will not be used again until next week.  |  IP: Logged

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