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Author Topic: Bulb or Lamphouse Problem???? Don Anderson Master Film Handler Posts: 312 From: West Bend, WI, USA Registered: Mar 2000 posted 08-07-2006 09:25 PM                     We have been having a problem with bulbs burning out way before their time. Here's what we have in the booth. Christie Rectifier/Power Supply Orcon 2500S Lamphouse We have used Osram 1600W/HS and Christie bulbs with what seem to be the same problem. We used to get 2000+ hours on a bulb. We originally thought the Rectifier/Power Supply was the problem (originally a ORC powersupply). So did our Service Tech, so he installed the Christie unit in place of the old ORC power supply. Have no fear, we had a bulb begin to fail over the weekend. We have been keeping an hourly chart of the amps and voltage at each showtime (beginning and during run). I started up a movie on Friday night and the Lamphouse readings we around 13v and nearly 80 amps, with barely any light on the screen.The showtime before it the readings were 66amp and 22.6 volts. So I installed a new bulb and had readings of 68amp and 20.6 volts at the time of igniting, with basically the same readings all night and throughout the weekend. Exhaust fans are working properly, bulbs are installed properly and anoide connectors secured to the lamps tightly. WE are baffled and so is the Service guy. We even had WI Electric aka WE Energies come out and install some gadget in the 3 phase box to measure spikes, etc. Nothing wrong there, watched it for over 4 weeks. Any ideas????? At 425.00 a bulb, its getting expensive, and we are stumped. I've have worked here 8 years and never had this happen before. When the Lamphouse is running, the amperage and voltage is fine, and has continued to stay that way, up until about 400-500 bulb hours. I had thought it was defective bulbs, but, defective from two different manufacturers???? I'm stumped. The bulb that was recently pulled over the weekend was not blackened or smokey looking at all, it looked fine. But, when we tried installing it in another auditoriums lamphouse it died instantly and turned milky white/gray inside, with a small piece of glass loose inside the bulb.  |  IP: Logged Louis Bornwasser Film God Posts: 4441 From: prospect ky usa Registered: Mar 2005 posted 08-07-2006 10:10 PM                        The bulb you referenced in the last paragraph has been damaged in a way that caused it to fail internally. When the electrodes are made to flex (rough handling) they flex and destroy the seal internally; that is why you saw the small piece of quartz. $425 is a bit high for a 1600. About right for a 2k (with a better warranty) If you are starting a 1600 watt bulb, typically you start at 75-80% of the max output. Your settings are a little high for a new start. You have no where to go when the bulb gets older. Hope this helps. Louis  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 08-07-2006 10:10 PM                     Where did you measure the voltage I would measure it on the output terminals of the rectifier if it is still 13volts then I would suspect a short to ground in the lamphouse otherwise the rectifier Does it flicker? A lamp turning milky white is a seal failure usually  |  IP: Logged Don Anderson Master Film Handler Posts: 312 From: West Bend, WI, USA Registered: Mar 2000 posted 08-07-2006 10:25 PM                     Gordon, I took the readings of the lamphouse amp meter, and tested the voltage the same way. There wasn't any bulb flickering that I noticed. Louis- There's nothing for me to set or lower on the Lamphouse or Power Supply. The only control on the Christie Power Supply is a knob with the numbers 1-4, it is located on the #1 setting (lowest). I'd prefer not to have to open the power supply and tinker around, I'd end up dead! Electrical work scares me!  |  IP: Logged Louis Bornwasser Film God Posts: 4441 From: prospect ky usa Registered: Mar 2005 posted 08-08-2006 12:26 PM                        Inside the rectifier are links corresponding to line voltage. You are probably on the low setting. Moving to 230 volt or some other---higher--voltage will mean that #1 will be much lower in current. You could then settle on 2 or 3. Louis  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 08-08-2006 03:27 PM                     Hard to believe that old 2500 that I installed is still there. Actually the ORC rectifier is probably ok too. They are not bad rectifiers actually they were made by LP Associates and are pretty much bullett proof except for an occasional bad diode. Sounds to me like... #1 You are paying too much for lamps. #2 Your starting current is too high. #3 You need a more knowledgable service tech thats better equipped tool wise, he should have tools to measure both inrush current and ripple to determine if your old rectifier was even at fault and before he put you through the expense of the Christie rectifier... Good techs that are well equipped are not always easy to find. Mark  |  IP: Logged Don Anderson Master Film Handler Posts: 312 From: West Bend, WI, USA Registered: Mar 2000 posted 08-08-2006 07:12 PM                     Mark- the old ORC was in pretty bad shape, at least the case was falling apart! You are right about finding techs, as far as I know, there are none in Wisconsin. At least every theatre owner that I've talked to gets techs from IL or MN. I'm not afraid of getting my hands dirty, as I have been fixing Noritsu and Agfa minilabs for over 15 years at my day job. Unfortunately, thats film processing equipment, not motion picture equipment. I which I had someone in the area that would show me the ropes, as I would rather do techwork.  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 08-08-2006 08:03 PM                     Well, putting the case back together is alot cheaper than installing possibly another questionable rectifier. I would get ahold of a DC clamp on amprobe and be darn sure your Amp meter is reading correctly before you do anything else. To me it sounds like either defective lamps or a very high operating current. What brand of lamps are these? BTW: That lamphouse nd rectifier were out of the old AMC in Naperville, IL. It was already 15 years old when it went into the West Bend Theater.... And I installed it there in the mid 80's! Humm, I would rather learn those minilabs... I always enjoyed darkroom work.. I just don't want to live in Wisconsin. Mark  |  IP: Logged Don Anderson Master Film Handler Posts: 312 From: West Bend, WI, USA Registered: Mar 2000 posted 08-08-2006 10:29 PM                     Mark- The old ORC rectifier was removed from service back in May/June, its still laying around the booth, but not in service. The Christie rectifier was installed at that time. We use either OSRAM XBO-1600W/HS or CHRISTIE CXL-16S bulbs, and yes, the price is about 425.00 a piece. Many of you have mentioned that we are paying too much for bulbs. But, the price for these units seems to be the same at every dealer that I have called. If you are getting them cheaper and they are the same brand/model, inform me where to buy them We only order 1 backup bulb at a time, and keep a used spare or two on the shelves. We are a 3 screener.  |  IP: Logged Frank Dubrois Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 896 From: Cleveland, OH Registered: Mar 2005 posted 08-08-2006 11:24 PM                    Dont get Mark started on that. He will tell you that you CAN get them cheaper, but wont tell you where.  |  IP: Logged Scott Balko Expert Film Handler Posts: 136 From: Redwood Falls, Minnesota, USA Registered: Apr 2000 posted 08-09-2006 09:44 AM                     I'm definitely no expert, and I hope this doesn't sound stupid, but I was picking up a film at another theatre that the manager said they were having similar problems with an ORC. They said that the cover was on backwards and all the cooling air was going out the vent. Seems that the cover could be put on with the vent toward the front or the back but should have been put on toward the front so the cooling air is drawn through the bulb chamber. With it on toward the back, all the cooling air was drawn out without going over the bulb. I don't know if this applies to your model lamphouse, but I thought that might be an easily overlooked thing if it does matter. Hope you figure it out. Good luck.  |  IP: Logged Don Anderson Master Film Handler Posts: 312 From: West Bend, WI, USA Registered: Mar 2000 posted 08-09-2006 10:02 PM                     Scott- You are right about some of the ORC lamphouse units. Two out of three of our ORC's have the exhaust port located at the rear of the units. The other ORC(2500c) has it located on the front. The lamphouse that were are having problems with is a 2500S, not the C version as stated earlier on in this post. I need reading glasses to see the damn small tags on the backpanel. Both the C and S actually have an extra exhaust hood that sits on top of the lamphouse cover. I can see how it could be reversed. Unit in question, has the exhaust port at the rear of the lamphouse, as shown in the operators manual. So, I guess we have it set up properly. Plus, this problem that we have been having only started this May/June, and the lamphouse has been in place for 25 years or so. Nothing has changed or altered. Although we have 3 ORC lamphouses in our booths, each unit is a different model, and each power supply is a different type too! 3 phase in lower booths, and a newly installed 3 phase in our upstairs booth. Why did we put 3 phase upstairs?? We couldn't locate a single phase rectifier/power supply in the WI/IL area, and ending up buying one from IL. It would have cost too much to ship one it from anywhere else. As for the old ORC power supply that Mark installed in our upstairs booth, it had seen better days. Yes, maybe it didn't have anything wrong with it, but it was unsafe, the cover was shot. It would constantly pop the breaker on the side of the case. Plus, the Electrian that wired the booth made a comment about it!  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 08-09-2006 11:33 PM                     FYI: The Strong 1-3K switcher runs on single or three phase power. It probably would have cost less than what your electrician probably charged you to install three phase in that upstairs booth. I installed the downstairs booths not the upstairs. Frank, Haven't you figured the diode thing out yet? Its no more difficult than selecting motor oil for your car from a chart. Mark  |  IP: Logged Frank Dubrois Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 896 From: Cleveland, OH Registered: Mar 2005 posted 08-09-2006 11:57 PM                    Mark, To ME, it is not that easy. I emailed you with another question about the selection of diodes and you never responded, so I am still stuck. Perhaps it will just come to me one day and I'll go back to that site and order the hell out of the diodes...but until I get struck with that information OR someone is patient and answers questions, I'll continue to have my company pay $30 a piece. Thanks for the help!  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 08-10-2006 12:24 AM                     Most of the older ORC lamphouses the exhaust must be located towards the back  |  IP: Logged

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