my profile | my password | search | faq & rules | forum home

» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Silent Format Orientation? (Page 1)

This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2

Author Topic: Silent Format Orientation? Frank Angel Film God Posts: 5305 From: Brooklyn NY USA Registered: Dec 1999 posted 07-24-2006 09:27 AM                        Just to refresh my memory, when a silent format film (no sound track/full frame) has one of those polished emulsions that are nearly impossible to tell which side is base and which is emulsion without scratching it, and you don't trust the leaders because they are spliced, and you don't trust that wet finger test (which never worked for me anyway....I must have strange spit or something), the rule is: Looking at the film as it enters the gate as the lens sees it, the image should be UPSIDE DOWN and MIRROR, correct? Somehow I am not sure about the mirror thing. Just want to be absolutely sure. I got a print in that has leaders taped on and even though they are sound leaders, they also don't have an ID frame because they are not originals, so the soundtrack on the leader is of no help. I am going to tackle this on Wednesday and just want a memory jolt. Thanks. Why am I paranoid? because I once got a silent print that had a splice in it that was a perfectly good splice except for that fact that it reversed the orientation and badabing badaboom, all the intertitles after that were reversed on the screen. The audience could hear me curse from the booth five stories up.  |  IP: Logged Stephen Furley Film God Posts: 3059 From: Coulsdon, Croydon, England Registered: May 2002 posted 07-24-2006 09:54 AM                     Hold the film so that it reads correctly; rotate it 180 degrees, keeping the same side, it should be the emulsion side for 35 or 70mm, towards you. That's the way the film goes into the projector, with the side that was facing you towards the lamp. In other words, top becomes bottom, and left becomes right. About the only exception is direct rear projection, without a mirror.  |  IP: Logged John Pytlak Film God Posts: 9987 From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922 Registered: Jan 2000 posted 07-24-2006 10:49 AM                        Normal 35mm print film orientation is that the image reads correctly through the emulsion side. So the emulsion normally faces the lamp during projection. Of course the image is upside-down in the projector gate. A camera original (e.g., 16mm reversal film) reads correctly through the base side, and the emulsion faces the lens during projection.  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 07-24-2006 01:45 PM                     Another easy way is to look at the image itself coming off of the reel. With holding the reel higher than the film coming out of the roll heading downward and looking straight at the image: If the image is upside down - heads. Image right side up-Tails. -Monte  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 07-24-2006 06:33 PM                     Geeze Monte you misread the question...he was concerned about emulsion vs base when you don't trust your eyes to tell which side is which nor your spit. I think Frank has heads and tails mastered. Frank...don't use spit on a finger...get more gross but it works...wet your lips and mash them down on the edge of the film (normal lip closing pressure is fine, no external force or exaggeration is needed) (not on a piece that will be projected...like the leader)....when you open your mouth...the lip that the film sticks to is the emulsion side. [ 07-25-2006, 10:27 AM: Message edited by: Steve Guttag ]  |  IP: Logged Frank Angel Film God Posts: 5305 From: Brooklyn NY USA Registered: Dec 1999 posted 07-24-2006 11:58 PM                        Thanks guys. Steve....AWEsome cool trick!  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 07-25-2006 04:52 AM                     Granted, I agree, Steve, what you came across with, but doing the spit/lip test is one trick that I never done in finding which side is the emulsion. I was just helping out a little to make the find easier with looking at the film itself. thx...Monte  |  IP: Logged Sam D. Chavez Film God Posts: 2153 From: Martinez, CA USA Registered: Aug 2003 posted 07-25-2006 09:05 AM                       Didn't your mom ever tell you you don't where the film has been? Putting film in your mouth is gross.  |  IP: Logged Brian Guckian Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 594 From: Dublin, Ireland Registered: Apr 2003 posted 07-25-2006 09:57 AM                     Were there any standard edge markings that were used back then, rather like Keycode today? I haven't handled much silent film material so would be interested to know if there are other ways than the "lip test", etc.  |  IP: Logged Leo Enticknap Film God Posts: 7474 From: Loma Linda, CA Registered: Jul 2000 posted 07-25-2006 10:20 AM                        The only edge markings I know of from that far back which could be used to determine the orientation were on Vitaphone prints, which had a footage number between the perforations on one side every 16 frames. This was so that if any footage was lost in an accident, it was reasonably easy to replace it with the same length of opaque spacing so that the picture didn't lose sync with the disc sound. Surely it shouldn't be neccesary to start sucking films to establish which is the emulsion side - just as long as you can find a title (shouldn't be too difficult, given that silent films have intertitles) and orient that correctly - as others have said, text the right way round facing the lamp and pointing downwards - you should be sorted.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 07-25-2006 10:30 AM                     Sam, Oh I suppose now you are going to say it isn't okay to measure the voltage on asbestoes cables by just jabbing the test probes through the insulation! (especially when the insulation is wet). Yes, I did warn it was gross (with unique spelling...now corrected) but it is absolutely effective. Then again, aren't most projection booths and projectors sterile environments? Steve  |  IP: Logged Paul Mayer Oh get out of it Melvin, before it pulls you under! Posts: 3836 From: Albuquerque, NM Registered: Feb 2000 posted 07-25-2006 11:34 AM                        Not around here!  |  IP: Logged Fred Georges Master Film Handler Posts: 257 From: Lombard, IL, USA Registered: Jun 2000 posted 07-25-2006 02:25 PM                     Not only Gross but, doing the lip test with a Movie that's a stinker you might just wake up with an awful Film in your mouth!  |  IP: Logged Leo Enticknap Film God Posts: 7474 From: Loma Linda, CA Registered: Jul 2000 posted 07-25-2006 03:24 PM                        How about having a good suck at an original tinted and toned print, with a uranium sulphate dye for the yellow? Then you'd get a good hit of nitric acid from the base and you'd end up being radioactive!  |  IP: Logged John Pytlak Film God Posts: 9987 From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922 Registered: Jan 2000 posted 07-25-2006 03:37 PM                        Processed film stock usually has a slight amount of "positive" curl at lower humidities, as the gelatin emulsion shrinks a bit more than the plastic base as the film dries out. Blowing warm air from a hair dryer at the film will accentuate the curl, with the emulsion side at the bottom of the cupping.  |  IP: Logged

All times are Central (GMT -6:00)

This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2

Printer-friendly view of this topic

Hop To: Select a Forum: Category: Operations -------------------- Digital Cinema Forum Film Handlers' Forum Large Format Forum Ground Level Feature Info, Trailer Attachments & REAL Credit Offsets Category: Community -------------------- Film-Yak Film Handlers' Movie Reviews The Afterlife Bob Maar's Joke-A-Thon Category: Classified -------------------- Equipment and Supplies Wanted/For Sale Help Wanted/Seeking Employment Category: System -------------------- Software Beta Testing Forum

The Film-Tech Forums are designed for various members related to the cinema industry to express their opinions, viewpoints and testimonials on various products, services and events based upon speculation, personal knowledge and factual information through use, therefore all views represented here allow no liability upon the publishers of this web site and the owners of said views assume no liability for any ill will resulting from these postings. The posts made here are for educational as well as entertainment purposes and as such anyone viewing this portion of the website must accept these views as statements of the author of that opinion and agrees to release the authors from any and all liability.