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Author Topic: Running flat trailers on scope Dan Chilton Expert Film Handler Posts: 191 From: Springfield, MO Registered: Mar 2004 posted 05-30-2006 10:11 PM                        Ordinarily I'd never ever do this, but I have two films coming up that need some serious trailering. Our big film of the week is in scope, but the only trailers I have for the "we-need-promoting" films are flat. How bad will it look if I stick them on the front? We do pre-show introductions in front of all of our films, so I'd make sure to tell the audience that the actual films won't look like the trailer. What do you think? ALSO, I'm sorry about back-to-back posts, but I'm getting ready to build up the scope film, so it was now or never.  |  IP: Logged David Stambaugh Film God Posts: 4021 From: Eugene, Oregon Registered: Jan 2002 posted 05-30-2006 10:14 PM                        Offer the audience a brief non-technical explanation and apology and assure them the movie will look "right".  |  IP: Logged Dan Chilton Expert Film Handler Posts: 191 From: Springfield, MO Registered: Mar 2004 posted 05-30-2006 10:30 PM                        Thanks David. Will the flat trailers look sqooshed or stretched?  |  IP: Logged Ian Woloschin Film Handler Posts: 54 From: Worcester, MA, USA Registered: Mar 2006 posted 05-30-2006 10:33 PM                        Heh, this is the one time where having an old style changeover system works wonders. Thread up your trailers on the first projector with the flat lens/aperture plate, and your first reel on the second projector. After you switch just thread up the next reel and swap out the lens/aperture plate. We do it all the time . Of course, when training new people, I have my "special" reel of a couple of trailers, two or three scope, and one flat (or maybe the other way around, I forget). I'll set up the lens/plate, have them thread it up and run it through, and flip out when the image comes up distorted and scare the crap out of them . That being said, yes, the image will be rather severely distorted, at least from my experience, and though you'll be able to see what's going on...I'm not sure the general public would understand even with a brief explanation.  |  IP: Logged Dan Chilton Expert Film Handler Posts: 191 From: Springfield, MO Registered: Mar 2004 posted 05-30-2006 10:36 PM                        Well, I'll see how distorted they look when I screen it tomorrow. If I can't tell what's going on, I won't use them... I'll just act out the previews during the pre-show introduction.  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 05-30-2006 10:51 PM                     You could build up the flats in front of the scope feature, but place some black film (which you can cut off the lead ends of the trailers-and ensure that the framelines can be followed to sensure even framing techniques..) inbetween the flat trailers to do a quick lens/aperture/close the dowser change when switching over to scope. Or, buy some black leader from your supplier (in the future) that can buy you some longer lens change length between the two... I used to work in a 4 screen cinema where this was a common practice in the 80's due to "whoever heard of scope trailers..?" - putting the black inbetween trailers and the feature..and had to do manual lens changeover with single lens projectors..was nicer when I went to turret models.. picture will be stretched some if you allow a full presentation...and can look rather odd with some trailers...and real bad with the "letterbox" trailers..trailers for scope features that is formatted for the flat lens.. -Monte  |  IP: Logged Mark Hajducki Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 500 From: Edinburgh, UK Registered: May 2003 posted 05-31-2006 03:25 AM                     Showing flat film footage in scope looks wrong. (I have only seen adverts like this). I take it you don't have a lense turret, although a conventional lense/plate change can be done quickly. What about running the show like this TRAILERS [Curtain close, douser closed, motor off] ANNOUNCEMENT (whilst lense change is occuring) [Curtain open, masking change] FEATURE Is your screen setup so that a scope image will be larger that the flat image?  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 05-31-2006 05:20 AM                     I do this commonly as regular practice. I feel it looks better to start the show and then as the feature opens, so does the masking to reveal an even bigger picture than the audience was expecting. (Of course I can get away with this because the Kinoton lens turrets are actually reliable, unlike many other brands.)  |  IP: Logged Dennis Benjamin Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1445 From: Denton, MD Registered: Feb 2002 posted 05-31-2006 06:02 AM                        Back in the 'old' days we used to do this. Like Brad says - when the screen gets bigger before the feature starts - it looks really cool. However, I have noticed that in the last ten or so years that a lot of multiplexes have that damn 'up and down' masking. This means that the picture actually gets smaller when it switches to scope. That would look really dumb. Also, if you have the proper masking (with a motor) and a reliable turret - you may want to use some black leader (with no soundtrack) in between the flat and scope portion. That way the turret can switch without seeing the picture flip onscreen. You can also do this if you have manual lenses - just make sure there is enough leader there to give you time to switch the lenses!  |  IP: Logged Greg Anderson Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 766 From: Ogden Valley, Utah Registered: Nov 1999 posted 05-31-2006 08:38 AM                        At our 6-plex in the early 1980s we often showed flat trailers before a scope feature without ANY effort to make the trailers look right. (I had no control over the situation as a very young usher/projectionist.) It was always interesting when someone came to the lobby during the trailers to complain that the picture was messed up. None of the customers seemed to know how to explain what was wrong... but they knew it was wrong and would stutter out some kind of description of the problem. My reply was always something like, "Yes, we've been having some trouble with those previews. Don't worry. The problem will be automatically corrected when the main feature begins."  |  IP: Logged Dieter Depypere Master Film Handler Posts: 343 From: Deutsch-Wagram, Lower Austria, Austria Registered: May 2005 posted 05-31-2006 11:17 AM                     I also do that regularily. I have to switch the lenses manually (Philips FP56). Usually, there are some feet of black leader between the last trailer and main feature and a note which trailer is the last one.  |  IP: Logged Steve Scott Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1300 From: Minneapolis, MN Registered: Sep 2000 posted 05-31-2006 11:44 AM                     If it's a case where you have no other choice & you're obligated to put a certain amount of trailers on the print, I would swap lenses and be on the lookout for any scope trailers. Never have I worked for a company that would approve of projecting flat trailers in scope. Scope trailers projected with a flat lens would be different, IMHO, as so many humble people never set their DVD players out of the factory-preset 16:9 mode on their 4:3 TV's. Especially when the technology was new, I was able to take for granted that anyone I helped set up their new toy would have made the aformentioned mistake. Strange, but many people are fine with watching a horizontally streched film at home, so the theory ought to work for their cinema experience too, but I do give them more credit at my theatre.  |  IP: Logged Dan Chilton Expert Film Handler Posts: 191 From: Springfield, MO Registered: Mar 2004 posted 05-31-2006 04:02 PM                        When screening, I found that if I turn the scope lense a full 90 degrees, the flat trailers aren't squished. They're quite a bit shorter in width, obviously, but the distortion is nearly gone. It's not ideal, but I think it might work for a week.  |  IP: Logged John Wilson Film God Posts: 5438 From: Sydney, Australia. Registered: Dec 1999 posted 05-31-2006 04:32 PM                     HI Dan I hope you're the only one running this booth. Why not just do a lens change? Even if there's no turret (is there?) you can swap out lenses and apertures in about 8 seconds. It'll look much better than running them in scope...and fooling with the anamorphic 90 degrees...well, you've got to get it spot-on again for the feature. Folks won't mind a short amount of blank screen anywhere near as much as it'll look as though you don't know what you're doing if you run 'em in the wrong ratio. And your screen will be magically bigger for the feature...always impressive. John  |  IP: Logged Larry Myers Master Film Handler Posts: 371 From: Herndon, VA, USA Registered: Jan 2001 posted 05-31-2006 05:29 PM                 Guess what? I really don't think people know the difference. I see flats run as scope ever so often now and again. If it's just one 2.15 minute flat, by the time someone looks around to see who he or she can complain to, the problem is fixed. Althougt it seems the only one that notices is me and I am the one looking around. Everyone else is looking ahead. I know this is not the answer. It's just a little bit of theater reality.  |  IP: Logged

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