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Topic: Speco LP-270 Payout Adjustment

Dave Macaulay
Film God

Posts: 2321
From: Toronto, Canada
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 05-10-2006 10:48 PM

I think the best adjustment is to "adjust" them into a dumpster.
But - the manual has a few troubleshooting sections that say the problem is "magnet arm position wrong" and "magnet position wrong". There is, however, no information on what the correct magnet and magnet arm position might be. The two adjustments interact but the arm position changes where in the payout arm's movement "off", "takeup power", and "full power" are applied to the payout motor and I think the magnet position alters what proportion of the arm travel "payout power" occupies.
Anyone have any suggestions on what the correct adjustments are?

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Darryl Spicer
Film God

Posts: 3250
From: Lexington, KY, USA
Registered: Dec 2000

posted 05-10-2006 11:09 PM

THe payout control arm should be about a half inch from the full on stop point on the brain and the magnet should be directly in the middle of the payout control card with the controle arm in that position. The variac should be on the down off position when doing this.

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

posted 05-11-2006 02:33 AM

LP-270 Platters are actually a pretty good platter - don't toss them into the dumpster.

Never had any major probs with them - outside of that plugin diode in the control box shorting out once in a while.

At least you don't have to do the awkward method of timing the decks by raising or lowering the motor as you do with the STRONGS...

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99

posted 05-11-2006 09:20 AM

The only issue I have ever had with speco that wasn't easily fixable was the painted platter decks that didn't conduct static
other than that other than the odd quirk they are rock solid machines

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 05-11-2006 09:34 AM

Non-conductive platter decks could be treated with a topical conductive anti-stat (e.g., Static Guard, Endust for Electronics, Staticide, Neutrostat, etc.) to improve dissipation of any static charge. Some vendors had conductive "platter mats" that provided conductivity, and a less slippery surface.

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Dave Macaulay
Film God

Posts: 2321
From: Toronto, Canada
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 05-11-2006 09:36 AM

With decent maintenance they're OK.
The makeup table is pretty crappy.
There's no compensation for differing motor performance; dislike the Strong motor adjustment if you want but it works and will equalize motors with different performance. With a Speco, when one motor is slower or faster than another you will get eternal payout arm cycling.
The payouts I'm working with are crap. The slanted roller is held on with a single 6-32 screw thet loosens with a gentle pull on the roller; then the roller flops around until it comes loose entirely. Out of 15 payouts one is a different design that is built a lot better.
The payout arm axle has 2 open dry bearings that naturally fill up with dust and grime. They need to be nearly frictionless to avoid wraps. Cleaning the bearings requires removing the magnet arm and probably disturbing the magnet position on the arm... but Speco gives zero guidance about proper positioning of either one (yet tells me that proper positioning is important).

So back to my original question:
I can set the arm as Darryl suggests but depending on the magnet position it will either just be activating the full power reed switch, have activated it for a while, or the reed doesn't activate at all even at the end stop.
What should I be shooting for? For example something like 1" travel with no power and 1" travel at full power with the in-between travel at takeup power?

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Steve Scott
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1300
From: Minneapolis, MN
Registered: Sep 2000

posted 05-11-2006 03:04 PM

For how many hours of good, easy to thread service they have given me, versus the few times I've seen them go out of alignment, the classic LP-270 is second only to a Kinoton for me. Just make sure all the speed control card covers are there. Banging a ring against those will surely knock it out of alignment or operation, let alone shock a stray piece of flesh.

Aside from the brains, the newer ones are still great, requiring rare realignment in my experience. They go through those buttons when used though.

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

posted 05-11-2006 04:55 PM

quote: Dave Macaulay
The payouts I'm working with are crap. The slanted roller is held on with a single 6-32 screw

..been there and done that..

Tried Locktite on that one screw, held after awhile but the tap threads got wobbled out from too much from being worked loose.

One location operator got fed up and sunk another 6-32 next to it..very carefully and with a very short screw to lock that angled bracket in place.. Got tired of going underneath to tighten down that one screw..

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Ian Bailey
Master Film Handler

Posts: 317
From: Nambucca Heads, Australia
Registered: Jun 2003

posted 05-13-2006 12:10 AM

Static on prints has been the biggest problem I have had with Specos(untill lately I've had a lot of trouble with Payout control PCBD's-which I am just about to start another thread on).
John you mention anti-stat sprayed on each deck to dissapate static.Doesn't this still rely on the deck being earthed properly.I did a check on one of mine recently to see if the earth was still good.All parts except the decks showed a good earth.The decks showed about 30ohms resistance to earth.Would this be due to the grease in the bearing for the deck?
Ian

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 05-15-2006 09:48 AM

Yes, if you use a topical conductive anti-static treatment, there still needs to be a path to ground.

The other option would be conductive brushes in contact with the film, such as the ones sold by Kinetronics:

Kinetronics Conductive Brushes

quote:
The Kinetronics StaticWisk© SWG-625 anti-static platter brush is used to stop ‘Brain Wrap’ on cinema platter systems. The soft conductive synthetic fibers plus the conductive nature of the construction result in effective static dissipation from polyester based film. A six-foot (2m), heavy-duty, coiled grounding cord effectively drains static electric charges off the film. The SWG-625 brush is mounted magnetically to the platter tower and can be adjusted with a double ball joint for easy alignment.
The StaticWisk APS-35 and APS-70 anti-static film roller brushes are used to dissipate the static build-up on plastic film rollers. Any film roller on the projector or platter system can be fitted with an APS anti-static brush. The APS brushes are easy to install, and can be adjusted to match any film angle. A six-foot (2m) coiled grounding cord is furnished with each brush.

As I said before, if you don't have a grounded conductive platter surface, another option would be a conductive "platter mat".

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Dave Macaulay
Film God

Posts: 2321
From: Toronto, Canada
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 05-15-2006 10:02 AM

I think part of the problem is polyester film. The payout works fine at the start of the show when the free film length is short. Around the middle of a show, the free length is longer and the polyester is more flexible than acetate and the loop passes the payout arm without moving it to "power off" if the bearings have any drag at all. Once the free length is longer, nearer the end of a film, it drags on the deck enough to push a balky payout arm over. On the "old" payouts once the loop gets around the payout you're finished, film gets into the dropped centre and enough tension results that the failsafe roller pops up and shuts the platter down.

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Steve Scott
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1300
From: Minneapolis, MN
Registered: Sep 2000

posted 05-15-2006 12:14 PM

Yeah, loose rollers abound and plenty of the split rollers like to freeze up, but our units still function well despite these. The old payouts seem to deserve the feed arms with the Strong-style plastic over the top, the threading inconvienient type. Especially when trailer changes are being done.

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John Eickhof
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 588
From: Wendell, ID USA
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 05-15-2006 11:29 PM

SPECO has had anti-static roller halves available for several years now..they are black conductive plastic and simply replace the original white delrin rollers. I have equipped approximately 50 or so LP-270s with these rollers placed as follows: One on the final roller out of each payout center, and then the last roller on the column sending the film to the projector and then the first roller at the bottom of the column that accespts film from the projector on take up. I have not had ONE complaint about static after the roller change. These are on platters from N. Dakota to California and in some of the most dry climates! Also through the years, the only time I have ever had to adjust the payout control magnets was after 'rough housing' or 'hard jerking' of the payout finger assemblies when pulling film through while threading. ( usually by inexperienced operators) Now that SPECO redesigned the MUT, I consider the LP-270 to be the top made american film platter system. I installed them in my own theatre and operated them flawlessly untill I closed the place. Talk to any old time Mann theatres employee and you will find they provided service for years without a problem! ( A personal friend of mine oprated 6 of them in a 12 hour / day operation for over 15 years and never lost a show due to a platter problem! ) Contact Jarren or George Higgenbotham at SPECO for info on the anti-static rollers..they are not expensive and will save lots of frustration!

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 05-16-2006 07:03 AM

Yes, conductive rollers can also provide the needed path to ground to help discharge any static buildup.

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