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» Film-Tech Forum   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » How do I deal with prints that arrive and aren't on reels? (Page 1)

 
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Author Topic: How do I deal with prints that arrive and aren't on reels?
Georgia Fisher
Film Handler

Posts: 3
From: Peterborough, Ontario, Canada
Registered: May 2005


 - posted 04-27-2006 02:01 PM      Profile for Georgia Fisher   Email Georgia Fisher   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Recently, a print arrived at our cinema that wasn't on reels, just in plastic containers. I managed to get it put together with some creativity, but was wondering what the proper way is to put it together, and how I'm gonna take it apart? Any ideas? This has never happened to me.

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Darryl Spicer
Film God

Posts: 3250
From: Lexington, KY, USA
Registered: Dec 2000


 - posted 04-27-2006 02:05 PM      Profile for Darryl Spicer     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Do you play other movies at your theatre? If so take a reel out of the box and remove the flanges. Insert the core on the flange and attach the other flange to it. Then break it down and send it back on cores as it came.

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Aaron Sisemore
Flaming Ribs beat Reeses Peanut Butter Cups any day!

Posts: 3061
From: Rockwall TX USA
Registered: Sep 1999


 - posted 04-27-2006 02:12 PM      Profile for Aaron Sisemore   Email Aaron Sisemore   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Darryl, that will not work if the film came on anything other than a 4 inch core.

You need to get a split reel to properly handle films on any size cores.

A split reel should be mandatory equipment in ANY booth.

-Aaron

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 04-27-2006 02:24 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Darryl Spicer
Do you play other movies at your theatre? If so take a reel out of the box and remove the flanges. Insert the core on the flange and attach the other flange to it. Then break it down and send it back on cores as it came.

Darryl's suggestion will work if the print you have is on the 4-inch (100mm) diameter cores labs use for the current "split apart" shipping reels.

If your print is on 3-inch cores or cores without the necessary cutouts for the split apart reels, you need to get several 2000-foot split reels, such as those made by Goldberg Bros., Nuemade, or Hollywood Film Company:

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Jack Ondracek
Film God

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From: Port Orchard, WA, USA
Registered: Oct 2002


 - posted 04-27-2006 02:42 PM      Profile for Jack Ondracek   Author's Homepage   Email Jack Ondracek   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Call the depot that sent you the print and tell THEM to send you the reels... cores and all. You shouldn't have to buy anything.

In the past 20 years I've only had this happen once. The depot had a box of new reels to me the next day... no problem.

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Alan Gouger
Master Film Handler

Posts: 480
From: Bradenton, FL, USA
Registered: Jul 2000


 - posted 04-27-2006 03:46 PM      Profile for Alan Gouger   Author's Homepage   Email Alan Gouger   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
How many days in advance do you guys get a print before the show. I hope you have some time to deal with these inconsistencies. Some of the stuff I read that happens cant be corrected in a few hours time.

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Louis Bornwasser
Film God

Posts: 4435
From: prospect ky usa
Registered: Mar 2005


 - posted 04-27-2006 03:51 PM      Profile for Louis Bornwasser   Author's Homepage   Email Louis Bornwasser   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Just don't book any more Oriental films! Seriously, get a split reel or 15" trailer flange. Louis

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Martin McCaffery
Film God

Posts: 2376
From: Montgomery, AL
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 04-27-2006 04:05 PM      Profile for Martin McCaffery   Author's Homepage   Email Martin McCaffery   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Georgia Fisher
Recently, a print arrived at our cinema that wasn't on reels, just in plastic containers. I managed to get it put together with some creativity, but was wondering what the proper way is to put it together, and how I'm gonna take it apart? Any ideas? This has never happened to me.
Do you work in an Art House? Your description makes it sound like it arrived without reels or cores. This used to happen frequently when I worked at AFI. Prints from overseas, and sometimes from studio storehouses would arrive on what we called "air cores." Short films, especially from indie filmmakers, usually arrived on cores (and if you ever run dailies in a screening room, they will be on cores).

We always kept a supply of cores on hand and had split reels and flanges to deal with them. There is no kind way I know of of dealing with air cores, you just be as careful as you can. Sometimes the opening will be big enough for a core, other times you go with the flange. Wrapping a piece of scrap film around the flange can help protect the film (which is probably damaged anyway).

On the other hand, if it just came in on cores, yeah, get a split reel.

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Ron Curran
Master Film Handler

Posts: 499
From: Springwood NSW Australia
Registered: Feb 2006


 - posted 04-27-2006 07:07 PM      Profile for Ron Curran   Author's Homepage   Email Ron Curran   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
We haven't seen film on spools for a very long time. All films come from distributors in cardboard boxes (sometimes one box with 8 spools) hopefully with seperators. We are expected to have the equipment to deal with it.

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Steve Scott
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1300
From: Minneapolis, MN
Registered: Sep 2000


 - posted 04-28-2006 02:41 PM      Profile for Steve Scott   Email Steve Scott   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I remember getting Le Divorce in a box, a whole day late, almost near the end of my shift, and labeling each side "Le Box"

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Leo Enticknap
Film God

Posts: 7138
From: Loma Linda, CA
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 - posted 04-28-2006 03:05 PM      Profile for Leo Enticknap   Author's Homepage   Email Leo Enticknap   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
In the UK and mainland Europe, 35mm prints are shipped on 2" or 3" cores, usually in plastic 'cans'. Changeover houses put them on their own house spools for projection. I remember having precisely the oppposite problem to Georgia's: a print being shipped over from the US on plastic projection spools, which had the wrong spindle diameter and wouldn't fit any piece of film handling equipment web had. Eventually I worked out how to separate the spool flanges from the 4" cores within and get at the film that way.

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12311
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 04-28-2006 04:51 PM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Europe has the opposite problem to Leo's when they come to the states on 9mm cores. That is, the core does not have a 1" hole as is typical but it has a 9mm center hole with a hole for the drive dog pin and that is it. If you don't have a 9mm spindle with a plate, you are screwed.

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John Walsh
Film God

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From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way
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 - posted 04-28-2006 05:04 PM      Profile for John Walsh   Email John Walsh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'm trying to identify all the different spindle sizes, cores, etc. that are out in the world (as a sort of side project.) For example, does anyone make split reels with 9mm spindles like Steve mentioned?

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12311
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 04-28-2006 09:11 PM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I don't think a conventional screw together split reel could be made for those Euro cores. At best one could make a slide together one like the traditional Neumade split reels.

To picture the Euro core...take a 2" core, fill in the 1" hole entirely so it is solid plastic...now drill a 9mm hole into it and then drill a pair of drive dog pin holes opposite of each other.

If you have a 9mm spindle with a flat plate, you are okay or a 9mm spindle with a "tightwind" sort of apparatus you should be fine.

Steve

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Stephen Furley
Film God

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From: Coulsdon, Croydon, England
Registered: May 2002


 - posted 04-29-2006 02:19 AM      Profile for Stephen Furley   Email Stephen Furley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Steve, you've mentioned these 9mm cores before; I've never seen one, and I've handled prints from many European countries. I think they must be very much the exception. our prints are normally delivered on normal cores like the ones you use there, with a 1" hole with a keyway. All three sizes of core, 2", 3" and 4" are quite common, but most prints will be on either 3" or 4" cores, or a mixture of the two. Recently, I have seen the cores with the extra holes in them to take the 'snap-together' spools like you have there, but I didn't know what those extra holes were fore until asked about it here. Most of our cores have just the single centre hole, like the ones which raw stock is supplied on.

I have seen two other types of core used for short lengths of film, usually trailers; one is a simple cardboard tube, which can be simply held on a finger while winding the film off it. The inside diameter is slightly more than 2", so if it is necessary to wind the film back onto one of these a standard 2" core, with a few layers of tape wound onto it will be a tight fit inside the cardboard core, and will drive it by friction.

The other type I have seen, and I have only seen one of them, is 1" inside diameter, and only slightly more outside, so it is basically a tube of about 1mm wall thichness, but since it is so thin there is no room for a keyway, so this is reversed, with a ridge in the inside. I've never seen anything that this fits onto, and it hurts, and doesn't wind off evenly, when holding it on a finger.

I have seen a hand rewind bench with 9mm spindles, which had fixed, non-removable, plates on both sides, I couldn't unstand why, but it would make sense for the type of cores which you describe.

John,

in antother thread I wrote, and can't remember how to link to it, the following:

quote: myself
9mm shafts are quite common in mainland Europe, and on machines made there. I haven't seen a Bauer 35mm machine, so I don't know if they are using the standard 9mm ones, or something slightly different.

These are close in size, but not identical, to the 3/8" shafts which are common in Britain; a 3/8 spool will usually fit on a 9mm shaft, but is slightly loose. I've seen both of these sizes with one or two drive pins, (one is more common) but since all the 2k and 6k spools I've seen in these sizes have four holes, it makes no difference. I have seen a few large tower spools for 1/2" shafts, which have only three drive holes, at 120 degrees, and these would obviously not fit on a shaft with two drive pins, which some 1/2" rewinders have.

Kinoton list both American and European 1/2" shafts for their machines; I don't know what the difference is.

I know of at least nine different shaft types on 35mm:

5/16" with key
5/16" with drive pin (rare, only seen it on a few very old machines)
9mm with drive pin
3/8" with drive pin
1/2" with one drive pin
1/2" with two drive pins

With 1/2" the difference does matter, because of the three hole tower spools.

Some machines have their own, non-standard shafts:

Fedi machine with very large spools mounted on the base. about 1"
GBN portable. 1/2" with smaller, closer, drive pin, like 3/8"
BTH Mk.1 SUPA. Weird, never seen anything else like it.

There is also 5/16" with square one end, like 16mm, not normally used for motion picture film, but is used for things like document microfilm,and so might be used on some types of equipment, like a film cleaning machine for example.

One reason I prefer to receive film on cores, at least they seem to be standard worldwide, even the very old wooden ones.

There are some spools which have a removable centre which can be swapped for running on different machines.

Most British cinemas probably couldn't handle a 5/16" American shipping reel, as they don't use anything that size.

We recently received a print late, I was rather alarmed when it arrived it one cardboard box, and two of the American style octagonal transit cases, which are not normally used here. This is far more than should have been needed for the print, which was well under two hours in length. It turned out that the cardboard box contained the print, on cores, in five plastic cans as we would normally receive, and the two American cases contained five empty plastic shipping reels, solid ones not the snap-together type. The print arrived on crossover, and left the same way, so it would seem that it had been to a venue which did not have the means to wind it back onto the 5/16" spools, and so had to send it out on cores, with the empty spools sent sepatately. I do have a 5/16" rewinder, so I sould have put it back onto the spools, but decided that it would be likely to cause problems for the next venue, so I left it as it was. The transit cases had a peculiar locking arrangement, with a small flat metal plate, which had to te threaded through an angled slot in some way, I can't remember the details now. It seemed very clumsy, is this normal on the newer transit cases?

I know of a few British cinemas which use 5/16" spools, including one which uses 6000 foot ones, which seems rather heavy for a spindle this size. I seem to remember that at the National Film Theatre the projectors used something larger, but the magnetic sound followers used 5/16", so different spools would have been needed for each. Do I remember correctly, Leo?

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