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Author Topic: Projection quality: Difference between DP70 / AAII, FP20 & FP30? Jerry Axelsson Expert Film Handler Posts: 107 From: Stockholm, Sweden Registered: May 2005 posted 04-08-2006 06:32 PM                     -Hello folks, Is there any difference in on-screen quality of these machines? I am thinking of the older Philips DP70 / Norelco AA II and later models such as the FP20 an finally the FP30. Does all machines have the same image steadiness and so on? Any professional input would be interesting. Thank you in advance, Jerry  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 04-08-2006 09:00 PM                     They are all excellent machines for 35mm! Its easier to get better side weave specs from the FP-20/30 machines but careful alignment of the DP-70 35mm trap will yield very close to the same results. The DP-70 also runs with much less film tension and it is certainly the best built of all dual gauge projectors out there. Its intermittent is unequaled in precision (1 micron manufacturing tolerance)and longevity and its conical faced star and cam are unique in themselves and they only ones of this type in any projector I am aware of. The DP-70 has a verticle shaft that is about 1.750 inch in diameter and makes the verticle shafts in American made dual gauge projectors look wimpy by comparison. Its one of the only projectors that you can actually use a 10 kw lamp with because it has the best gate cooling of any of the dual gauge projectors. Heavy, huge, but very universal and also upgradable the DP-70 is hard to beat. I maintain close to 100 of them and they are very little trouble, parts last a very, very long time and they can literally run forever with no gear side failures if the oil is regularly changed out. About all we ever sell for them are sprockets, lateral guide rollers, and gate bands. An occasional main drive gear set every two or three years. But heck some of these main gear sets and the projectors they are in are only 50 years old! Mark  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 04-08-2006 10:14 PM                     I tend to agree with all that Mark has said about the machines that were listed. The FP30 and FP20 are the same machine from the film's point of view and also share the same drive train (we are talking about the older versions, not the E or A or D series that are out today). As to modern dual guage machines, the FP75E has a vastly superior cooling system than the AA2 and the way the aperture plate couples to the cooling plate also goes to the FP75E. 10KW on the FP75E is also no problem. You can't compare the vertical shaft on the FP75E since it doesn't have one. The Star and Cam are also none existant. The picture steadiness of the FP75E seems superior to every other "cinema" projector I've ever seen (including the Kinoton 35mm or 35/16 offerings). Why is that? Why do 70mm machines typcially outperform 35mm only machines on 35mm? It is certainly true on the Century JJ...it does 35mm better than the SA or C. Back on topic...I think the FP20 was a better made machine and more sturdy. The FP30 is more modular but much more flimsy in its column construction. The AA2 is definately a "sturdy" machine and consumes the least amount of parts of just about any machine I know (except maybe the PK60D). It is built like a tank with everything having that "overspec" feel to them. Typically, just tension bands, the occasional shutter drive gear (if it is still fibre), a belt every so often, oil and filter change. One of the keys on AA2s and 35mm steadiness is you MUST work with fresh bands and set the lateral guide rollers properly with the fresh bands...once those bands take a set, you can't mess with the lateral guide rollers or film will "hunt."  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 04-08-2006 10:50 PM                     We have our own gate bands manufactured out of a bit harder stainless so they don't develop the "film groove" nearly as fast as the Kinoton bands do. They also cost about half as much to buy as the German made bands do. Two plus years from a pair of bands is typical. We also supply a constant curve runner known as the "James Bond runner". This eliminates the flat spot at the aperature of the original runner and greatly reduces film flutter and drastically improves focus. Mark  |  IP: Logged Jerry Axelsson Expert Film Handler Posts: 107 From: Stockholm, Sweden Registered: May 2005 posted 04-09-2006 06:08 AM                     I am curious to hear why he older FP20 and the FP30 would be better than the recent product line, like the FP30D for example? I might have access to an older FP20 which I am thinking of renovating and repaint. Their main feature must be to handle 6-7 KW of light, it would be a benefit if they would be somewhat less heavy and mobile since I am looking for state-of-art projection with a unit which can be set-up temporary. Which years of the older projectors would be preferred in the case of the older FP20 and FP30, up until what year were they better? So I guess you guys are saying that an older FP projector is preferred here? I would like the idea of fixing an older, solid FP20 and repaint to have it look like a new projector. What would be a fair price to pay for an older FP20? (Approx) A fun detail. On the 20:th aniv. dvd of "E.T." The Extra Terrestrial. The gala premiere at he "Shrine" in L.A. with John Williams conducting live for the screening, they used what looks to be an older Norelco FP20. (se screencap). Their screen was quite large and with Spielberg hanging over your shoulder I would have guessed that you both want and need the best for your film presentation...  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 04-09-2006 11:22 AM                     The FP30D is certainly on par with older machines. It is an excellent machine. The preference between FP20 and FP30 seems to vary from person to person. I received an email comment to the effect that the FP30 has better focus due to better support. I have not found this to be true. The FP20s I've worked with were all more solid than their FP30 counterparts. I particularly dislike the FP30 "lawnmower blade" feet. The FP20 has a vastly superior base. In the US, many companies that do rentals used FP20s. They are physically smaller than the FP30, very fast to set up, hook up and are easily adaptable to various special needs. The only point I was making on the older machine was to clarify the classic FP20 versus the current FP20A. The FP20A is really a stripped down version of the FP30 rather than any relation to the FP20 of yesteryear. I guess the FP30A name was already taken for that would have been more in line with the current "A" line of Kinotons. I believe the original FP30A denoted the lack of automation and connectors for remotes and such. I like the "D" series for they are direct drive and use an inverter to precisely control the speeds but I wouldn't run away from the belt drive systems either. If you deal with 16mm...then the decision is more clear cut...an FP38E is far and away better than the FP26, FP28, FP38, FP16, FP18. The FP38E is the best thing to happen to 16mm picture AND sound...too bad it came at the end.  |  IP: Logged

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