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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Automating JSX1000 to switch to digital with DA20 (Page 1)

 
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Author Topic: Automating JSX1000 to switch to digital with DA20
Aaron Garman
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1470
From: Toledo, OH USA
Registered: Mar 2003


 - posted 03-28-2006 01:24 PM      Profile for Aaron Garman   Email Aaron Garman   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
So we have a problem with two of our Ultra Stereo units wanting to switch to the digital/ext with our DA20s. No matter what, the green digital light on the DA20 will not engage unless we manually press the digital/ext button on the Ultra Stereo. I've looked at the wiring on our 3rd DA20, but it uses an actual board, whereas the two that don't work have multicolor wires with spade connectors connecting to the Ultra Stereo. If it helps, this is how the connections are connected:

Auditorium 1:
Purple into Non Sync
Nothing on Mono and Aux
Red on Stereo
Nothing on SR
Black on E
Gray on Digital

Auditorium 11 (has SR card):
Brown on Nonsync
Red on Mono
Nothing on Aux
Yellow on Stereo
Green on SR
Black on E
Blue on Digital

All I want is for these units to switch to digital when it picks up an SRD signal. It's frustrating just because not everyone on the staff remembers to switch it manually, except a few of us. Thanks!

AJG

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 03-28-2006 03:50 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
You have to have an "A" series board in the DA20 for it to "auto-switch" when it sees digital. (I can't remember the actual cat number.)

This really isn't worth your time or expense to upgrade the card. Just move the automation wire that is connected to SR or whatever format your automation starts the show in to the digital terminal. That way when the automation switches out of non-sync, it will go right into digital. Problem solved.

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Darryl Spicer
Film God

Posts: 3250
From: Lexington, KY, USA
Registered: Dec 2000


 - posted 03-28-2006 06:35 PM      Profile for Darryl Spicer     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Just remember that you must have digital information on the first trailer otherwise you have to switch it to stereo. On the one we have I have it set up like Brad suggests and it works great. Sometimes if the first trailer is not digital. wich in our case it's ads, the unit will switch to stereo but not all the time.

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Aaron Garman
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1470
From: Toledo, OH USA
Registered: Mar 2003


 - posted 03-28-2006 10:10 PM      Profile for Aaron Garman   Email Aaron Garman   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'll give it all a try, but was wondering if the fact that our NCM ads run on the stereo input make a difference. I say this because they added a wire from the stereo automation input to another input that keeps it locked into stereo until the motor starts. Thus, we don't even use nonsync anymore. I was wondering if this has something to do with it? All our DTS houses and one of our dolby house are fine, except these two.

I also forgot to mention that at one point, house 11, was setup so that the full dim cue also pulsed the processor into digital so that trailers played in stereo only. This was before the NCM was installed, and ever since it has been goofy because we don't use the spare cue anymore.

Also, if I move the SR or Stereo wire to the digital input, will the unit revert back to stereo if the digital drops out since nothing will now be connected to the stereo/SR input?

Thanks guys.

AJG

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Darryl Spicer
Film God

Posts: 3250
From: Lexington, KY, USA
Registered: Dec 2000


 - posted 03-28-2006 11:07 PM      Profile for Darryl Spicer     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
There should be one wire coming from the DA20 automation control hooked to the stereo or sr automation point on the Ultra stereo processor to pulse it to stereo when digital drops out. By the way are you using CFS consoles? Thats what we have and what I did was put the wire that used to go to the Mono point and moved it to the Stereo point and removed the stereo automation wire to avoid it pulsing to stereo while reading a digital signal. Note the ones you need to switch are the wires coming from your projection automation not the DA20. Do they have the NCM wired into the projector #2 pre amp inputs? They probably do and it is wired to think it is running a second machine so when you push the start button it switches over just like a change over thus staying in stereo. Unless there is another way around it you may have to thread early so that the dowser opens before the digital track enters the reader so that it pulses to digital. Maybe someone else has the answer on that one. We get the NCM stuff in a few weeks so the info will be good to know.

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Aaron Garman
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1470
From: Toledo, OH USA
Registered: Mar 2003


 - posted 03-28-2006 11:59 PM      Profile for Aaron Garman   Email Aaron Garman   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Darryl, we do have CFS consoles and the NCM is wired in as a second projector. I'm still wondering why using nonsync wasn't good enough. Anyhow, do you mean I need to switch some wires inside the console itself? I looked in there and it just looks like a big mess, but with direction I may be able to understand what to do.

Thanks for all the help.

AJG

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Darryl Spicer
Film God

Posts: 3250
From: Lexington, KY, USA
Registered: Dec 2000


 - posted 03-29-2006 12:20 AM      Profile for Darryl Spicer     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
No no need to switch anything in the console. The wires are on the Ultra Stereo. Does the ultra stereo ever go into Non-Sync? Check the Switch on the automation panel that says stereo and SR or Mono on it. Make sure it is in the right setting. I am just not sure about the wiring and what they have done when they installed the NCM stuff. It sounds to me like it's just wired to pulse to stereo as if it was a changeover. The wire pulsing the stereo from the main automation needs to be moved from the stereo or sr point on the automation inputs to the Digital point so when the relay pulses the projector dowser to open it will pulse the processor to digital.

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Aaron Garman
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1470
From: Toledo, OH USA
Registered: Mar 2003


 - posted 03-29-2006 12:40 AM      Profile for Aaron Garman   Email Aaron Garman   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Let me outline what exactly is going on again.

We have CFS consoles, the Ultra Stereo JSX-1000 and the DA20.

We also have NCM running in between shows. Now, the audio information for the NCM ads are setup as a 2nd projector, and thus wired into input 2 on the Ultra Stereo.

When one hits the start button, the lamp will light, motor moves, and the douser opens. The sound itself was already in stereo, and thus just stays there, with no pulse being sent to the DA20 to tell it to go digital. The only way to get the green LED on the DA20 to light up digital, one must manually press the DIGITAL/EXT button on the Ultra Stereo.

I'm starting to think that the automation pulses NOTHING when you hit start now as far as sound goes. I switched the wire for Stereo from the DA20 automation from the stereo automation input on the Ultra Stereo to the Digital input, and I still have the same problem. In fact, nothing happens at all. I can't even manually put the unit in digital.

So what exactly am I missing? Garrrr, frustration to the max! Makes me wish we had a DTS 6 in there, because those work fine throughout the complex, even with NCM.

Thanks a bunch Darryl and I'll keep trying stuff!

AJG

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Darryl Spicer
Film God

Posts: 3250
From: Lexington, KY, USA
Registered: Dec 2000


 - posted 03-29-2006 02:28 AM      Profile for Darryl Spicer     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hmmmm on the DA20 we have the green led to indicate digital only comes on when digital information is being processed. There is no pulse to the DA20 from the automation. It goes into digital processing only when information is being read and pulses the ultra stereo into digital extension. There must be some wires that come from the automation connected to the automation on the ultra stereo. Basically how many wires do you have going to the stereo automation terminal. You should have two wires going to the Digital/Ext on the Ultra Stereo. One for the DA20 to pulse to digital if it were to drop out and the other for the main automation to pulse the ultra stereo processor on dowser open. Essentially it was the wire used to pulse the Ultra Stereo to stereo at start up. Why is the spare cue no longer used? In our case it is needed to pulse the lights from half to full dim. Otherwise with it out of spare cue the lights don't dim and the center cue at the credits is no longer functional. I still think either a switch is in the wrong place or a wire needs to be moved. Can you take a couple of photos and post them so we can look at the back of your units.

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Aaron Garman
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1470
From: Toledo, OH USA
Registered: Mar 2003


 - posted 03-29-2006 08:33 AM      Profile for Aaron Garman   Email Aaron Garman   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'll grab some photos this morning. Also, the spare cue switch is still on spare cue, but we only use 3 cues now since the NCM ads run on full light. When we hit start, the lights automatically go to half now.

AJG

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Jason Miller
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 241
From: Little Rock, AR,
Registered: Mar 2004


 - posted 03-29-2006 11:28 AM      Profile for Jason Miller     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Does the processor switch to Projector 2 when the changeover closes or when the motor stops?

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Aaron Garman
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1470
From: Toledo, OH USA
Registered: Mar 2003


 - posted 03-29-2006 12:07 PM      Profile for Aaron Garman   Email Aaron Garman   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hello all. Here are the two images I was able to capture of the backplane of the Ultra Stereo and the console

itself. Forgive the blurry image, but the camera I used didn't work too well and the lighting situation was even

worse. Looking at the backplane, there are two wires coming up from the DA20 on the left there. The red one is

wired into the stereo automation input, the black one as a ground (I think), and the gray one wired into digital.

That extra black one on the stereo input is part of the NCM system and locks the processor into stereo until the

motor runs. On the right side, there are the black and green wires. The black is a ground I'd imagine, and the

green is the changeover from the NCM system. If this is disconnected, there will be no sound for NCM.

 -

Here is the image of the console. I don't understand much of what is going on there, but it is here for anyone who

is curious.

 -

To answer Jason's question, the processor switches when the motor stops.

Thanks for all the help.

AJG

EDIT: I don't know if I mentioned it clearly, but when everything starts running, the DA20 is reading all the information as it should be, but the green LED for DIGITAL will not light up. The orange analog LED also will not light. So somewhere in there, something isn't kicking it into thinking it's in digital.

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Jason Miller
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 241
From: Little Rock, AR,
Registered: Mar 2004


 - posted 03-29-2006 01:05 PM      Profile for Jason Miller     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
When the DA20 starts up it thinks it is in a non-analog format (like non-sync). You have to send a ground pulse across the same lines it uses to switch with (it monitors those lines as well as uses them to switch the processor).

Since the NCM stuff was installed, someone removed the wire that was originally sent from the automation to switch it out of non-sync into Stereo. you will need to hook this wore back up so that the DA20 knows it has been switched to an analog format.

now.. a possible problem that might be happening at the end of the show, is that when the changeover closes, does the processor stay in projector 1 and Stereo and blast the tail out through the sound system until the motor stops and the P2 card takes over?

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Aaron Garman
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1470
From: Toledo, OH USA
Registered: Mar 2003


 - posted 03-29-2006 02:35 PM      Profile for Aaron Garman   Email Aaron Garman   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
So, would this ground wire be one of the extra ones just hanging there from the console automation bundle (pictured on the right)? If so, where would I connect that one? To the digital automation input?

Yeah, at the end of the show, we hear a bunch of junk until the motor stops. It's REALLY annoying and tacky if anyone is left in the auditorium. Basically, when the show ends, the last cue brings up the house light and closes the douser. When it actually drops, motor stops, projector 2 (aka NCM) audio changes over, and the masking sets itself to flat.

AJG

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Jason Miller
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 241
From: Little Rock, AR,
Registered: Mar 2004


 - posted 03-29-2006 03:30 PM      Profile for Jason Miller     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
a better picture of the termination panel in the console would help.. but...

it looks like a red wire is connected to NS (non-sync). and nothing is connected to STEREO. you need those 2 connections and a ground common. is there a spare wire in the console that runs back to the processor that you can hook up to STEREO?

and if there is a wire connected to NS, is it connected to the processor on the back? I cant tell from the blur.

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