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Author Topic: SPECO LP 270 payout adjustment Ian Bailey Master Film Handler Posts: 317 From: Nambucca Heads, Australia Registered: Jun 2003 posted 02-28-2006 03:07 AM                     Hi Just wanted to know the correct position of the payout magnet on a LP270 to get smooth payout when threading up and running a show. Thanks Ian  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 02-28-2006 04:16 AM                     Align it such that when the arm is moved to the left that the motor kicks in about 1/2 inch from hitting the end stop. (Note this should be done with the takeup elevator roller all the way down in it's rest position.)  |  IP: Logged Ian Bailey Master Film Handler Posts: 317 From: Nambucca Heads, Australia Registered: Jun 2003 posted 02-28-2006 07:02 PM                     Thanks Brad I did the adjustment on 4 LP270's last night and now they are running as smooth as a babies bum.  |  IP: Logged Lindsay Morris Expert Film Handler Posts: 233 From: Darlington, WA, Australia Registered: Sep 2002 posted 03-01-2006 12:49 AM                     Brad, Am curious why one would wory where the elevator roller is when you are attempting to adjust the Payout and not the Takeup? All the Speco LP270's I have tangled with have the Payout and Takeup Plus Makeup & Breakdown modes all switched. Normally you only have the brute in one mode and not a mix of various buttons pushed. One critical adjustment is also the 2 little circular magnets that help stabilise the payout arm. I have found that the platter runs smoothest when these are set to give the arm an ever so slight bias to OFF. Plus the platters must be dead level otherwise things are very erratic. I used to work at a location that had a Phantom Phiddler who would tinker with all sorts of things in the box which made doing your shift very interesting at times This meant one had to almost check everything before you started any show be it 35mm, 16mm, Video or even just an audio feed... thankfully he left and the Phiddling stopped Lindsay  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 03-01-2006 02:08 AM                     quote: Lindsay Morris Plus the platters must be dead level otherwise things are very erratic. Absoutely not! If the decks are dead level, the payout arm doesn't return to zero properly. They must have a slight tilt. quote: Lindsay Morris Am curious why one would wory where the elevator roller is when you are attempting to adjust the Payout and not the Takeup? The LP270 platters are a 3 position payout. First you have full stop. Second (the middle section) is the speed of the takeup elevator. Third is "full on". If you have the takeup elevator anywhere except full off during setup, it becomes more difficult to align the magnet. Essentially when the projector is started, the payout arm swings over as far as it can go "full on", then overspins past the "speed of the takeup" and rests at "full stop". Then as the platter starts to slow down the payout arm bounces in between "full stop" and "speed of the takeup" for the rest of the movie since the takeup speed will be ever so slightly faster than is needed for payout. This behavior is why the proper threading on an LP270 is such that the payout platter is overspun precisely 1/2 rotation before the projector is started. On a standard ramp-up projector motor such as a Simplex, this will prevent the film from getting scratched as the platter gets up to speed and stabilizes. Otherwise the payout platter must be "helped" to do a proper start.  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 03-01-2006 09:11 AM                     And one needs to be carefull as the tabs on the SCRS in there are live  |  IP: Logged Lindsay Morris Expert Film Handler Posts: 233 From: Darlington, WA, Australia Registered: Sep 2002 posted 03-07-2006 04:28 AM                     One thing I like about this forum is that you learn lots of bits and pieces. That trick that Speco use to control the speed of the platter between full on and full off is certainly neat and I always thought it was well done design of the platter inertia and motor reaction that gave them the smooth operation. Hmmmm. Cunning fellas at Speco. As to platter being level maybe the ones we have here in OZ are a bit different to those in USA as the instructions I read a long while ago where I used to use a Speco mentioned getting the platter level. The payout arm is brought back to OFF by the 2 little circular magnets mounted on the top of the payout controller unit. One is fixed to the arm and the other fixed to controller and are so adjusted that they gently repel and push the arm back to OFF. Maybe those magnets are not used in USA???? By adjusting just one of those very carefully the platter can be made to react very smoothly and almost run as well as the Kinotons I have seen going. On the Speco I never have had to worry about setting either the payout or takeup platters to any special position. They always did their job very well and followed the film demand and return quite effortlessly. This was with a Ballantyne Pro 35 calling the shots and they (Pro 35) DO get away very quickly. This was at a Rep venue and at times I would have to stop due to film breaks or loss of loops etc and apart from sticking my head around behind the Pro 35 as I got going again I never had to worry about the platters ever NOT following what the machine did. So for my money when Specos are setup well they behave impeccably The only problems I have ever had was when some idiot decided to tinker with the magnet relationships to each other and then all hell breaks loose... thought I was going to throw a print one night until I worked out what was going on and reset one magnet on the run and then later on spent a bit of time getting it all just right again and then marked the spots where they should be. Lindsay  |  IP: Logged Ian Bailey Master Film Handler Posts: 317 From: Nambucca Heads, Australia Registered: Jun 2003 posted 03-07-2006 08:25 AM                     Hi Lyndsay How's it goin' mate!! I've never seen the small magnets untill I noticed them on a Speco I inherited recently.The magnets and the mounting arms were loose on this one so they weren't doing anything.I tightened them up and played around with the magnets but I'm not sure if I set the magnets correctly. Would you mark the spots on the magnets for maximum repullsion so you've got a starting point to work with? Then adjust one magnets position to set the force on the pay-out arm? Are the mounting arms for the magnets directly in line with each other or do you change there position also? Thx Ian  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 03-07-2006 11:39 AM                     Set the payout platter in the ready position where the arm is at the off position and the film is perfectly entering the arm without any forward or backward curl. Start the projector. Watch the payout platter...the film will wrap around the brain. That scratching right there for about 5 seconds can be eliminated if you overspin the payout platter 1/2 turn before you start the projector. (The elevator roller should be just as low as it can go on the elevator as well.) I suppose it's possible someone removed the magnets from the units I used to work with. They were after all quite abused by the time I used them. Regardless, once the machine had been up to speed for about 10 seconds, they were quite damned reliable and smooth machines.  |  IP: Logged Ian Bailey Master Film Handler Posts: 317 From: Nambucca Heads, Australia Registered: Jun 2003 posted 03-07-2006 06:11 PM                     Hi Brad I have 7 Specos and 6 of them are positioned on the non-operating side of the projector.That makes it hard to give the pay-out deck a bit of a helping hand as the projector is started. The "ramp-up" speed of the projector(if adjustable)seems to improve this situation. Ian  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 03-07-2006 06:35 PM                     Sure having the projector ramp up slower is ideal, but like I said above, just overspin the payout platter 1/2 rotation before you start and that way when the payout arm swings into the middle "speed of the takeup", the takeup elevator will be at it's maximum drop to give the motor the largest boost possible. It does the same thing without having to hand spin it to prevent scratching.  |  IP: Logged Ian Bailey Master Film Handler Posts: 317 From: Nambucca Heads, Australia Registered: Jun 2003 posted 03-08-2006 08:26 AM                     OK,now I understand.Sounds so simple,I'll give that a go. "Simple" is good for me!!! Ian  |  IP: Logged Lindsay Morris Expert Film Handler Posts: 233 From: Darlington, WA, Australia Registered: Sep 2002 posted 03-09-2006 01:57 AM                     Ian, I don't recall seeing anything much in the LP 270 instructions re those magnets... it sorta all made sense to me when I worked out that they were magnets by falling back on my experiences in Telecom with various assorted polarised relays in telegraph gear. By trial an error I found out that the Speco behaved the best when those magnets were so adjusted that with no film in the payout controller the arm gently swung back to OFF if you pulled it over to full ON and then released it. By rotating those magents you can either get quite strong attraction or repulsion and what you want is gentle repulsion. So just loosen one and rotate it and if you set the arm midway and let it go you will soon see which way you are going... the wrong way will pull the arm over to Full On and the correct way will send it back or "bias" it back to OFF which is where you want it. Too much OFF bias makes the platter jerky as it is not letting the film do the controlling but you certainly need some bias to send the arm back off as the platter over-runs. When I got the last Speco going well I marked the spots where both magnets should be so if the fiddler got loose again I knew instantly what could be the problem. Is not nice seeing a very full platter violently speeding up and over shooting to hell with all that was stopping a print being slung off was the payout controller and the brain wrap rollers getting a real good workout. Lindsay  |  IP: Logged

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