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Topic: Close Shutter When Change Lens

Demetris Thoupis
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1240
From: Aradippou, Larnaca, Cyprus
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 02-13-2006 06:57 AM

I have been thinking (hmmm that took me a lot of time!). Mostly we use manual turret projectors down here. I remember when I was working as a projectionist and we were showing a scope film with flat trailers, I always had the tendency to close the lamphouse shutter and then open it again after I did the lens change. How many of you out there use this method? Or do you like changing the lens and apperture while light hits the screen?
D

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

posted 02-13-2006 07:01 AM

Most projectionists insert black leader if the projector/automation does not automatically close the douser during the lens change.

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Demetris Thoupis
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1240
From: Aradippou, Larnaca, Cyprus
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 02-13-2006 07:45 AM

Closing the douser of the projector only causes light to be hiting the douser. Even if it is only for a few seconds, we have all seen what burned out dowsers look like! I believe that it would be more suitable in closing the lamphouse shutter instead of the dowser of the projector. Also manual lens change is much faster than automatic.
D

P.S: Damn it Brad! You sleep all night dreaming "Hmmmm Film-Tech Forums!!!"

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William T. Parr
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 823
From: Cedar Park, TX
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 02-13-2006 09:24 AM

quote: Demetris Thoupis
Also manual lens change is much faster than automatic.

Maybe on a Simplex using the TU2000 (Old Ballantyne Lens changer it might be) However on a Century SATA of mid to late 80's vintage and newer Simplex Millenums it only takes 2.4 seconds to rotate the turret and change the apperture plate. Lots faster than doing a manual lens change.

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 02-13-2006 09:45 AM

Showmanship would require not showing the lens change on screen, so opaque black leader is normally used to block the light during the change. Always a good idea to check and "tweek" focus after the lens change -- but the focusing should be done so it is not obvious to the audience.

quote: Demetris Thoupis
Closing the douser of the projector only causes light to be hiting the douser. Even if it is only for a few seconds, we have all seen what burned out dowsers look like! I believe that it would be more suitable in closing the lamphouse shutter instead of the dowser of the projector. Also manual lens change is much faster than automatic.

The lamphouse dowser is usually more resistant to damage from heat than the projector's changeover "shutter".

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Brad Allen
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 688
From: Evansville, IN, USA
Registered: May 2000

posted 02-13-2006 01:31 PM

I vote for the black leader method. Looks better on screen.

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

posted 02-13-2006 01:36 PM

Does anybody here call the lamphouse "dowser", a "damper" - so one can call the unit on the machine a "dowser" by itself?

I've been calling that part on the lamphouse damper from carbon arc days.

..before there was such a thing called scope trailers, we always closed the lamphouse damper between trailers and feature so the turret (or manual lens change) and maskings could be adjusted.

-Monte

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

posted 02-13-2006 04:01 PM

quote: William T. Parr
However on a Century SATA of mid to late 80's vintage and newer Simplex Millenums it only takes 2.4 seconds to rotate the turret and change the apperture plate. Lots faster than doing a manual lens change.

I don't have an exact rotation time, but I want to say the Kinoton turrets are faster than this and as an added bonus they automatically close the douser during a lens change, so no opaque leader is needed. Also the Kinoton turrets do not drift! They are the only turrets I've ever worked with that do not suffer this common problem. However expect to spend some extra time setting them up with a set of binoculars since there is only one focus knob. It takes a bit of work to get them both dead on in focus with each other, but it can be done.

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Lindsay Morris
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 233
From: Darlington, WA, Australia
Registered: Sep 2002

posted 02-14-2006 01:31 AM

After my switch from a pair of Simplex Standards to the Century CC & MUTT I wondered just how was the best for me to do the format changes.
Another long established outdoor in Perth splices in 10 secs worth of black leader and does the lens/aperure shuffle on a black screen. If the operator on did not feel comfortable with that they actually used to come to a grinding halt, change the lens and then get going again.
I could not readily find any black leader but had heaps of dark blue stuff cut off from the excess tails on many prints.
Without a lens the screen takes on a nice blue look with the big bullseye in the middle as if the screen is illuminated with a flood lamp.
So after some trial and error I worked out that 10 secs was more than enough to do the change on the Century particularly as I have set it back a bit more than normal from the front wall thus getting the scope assembly in or out is really easy.
Where I have to do a format change I splice in the 10 sec blue leader which has a muted soundtrack and note on the running sheet the spot where the change must be made in the program.
Some nights I have had 2 format changes (WS-Scope-WS) depending upon what trailers and feature I am running.
As the point comes near I loosen the lens clamp and as most trailers have a short credit roll on the end I do the aperture change quickly on that and as soon as the screen goes blue whip the lens out and slip the other one in and clamp up the lens barrel and usually I am well ahead of the blue ending.
As I have 100mm barrels with keyed adapters for the lens I spent a lot of time getting each lens barrel (3 of them WS, Scope and Academy)all exactly spot on so the focus is quite good on any change.
At times a slight tweak is all that is needed to sharpen it up.

Initially I got caught out stopping and changing lens as it took too long, you had to juggle sound faders or kill the exciter and sometimes the takeup on the MUTT would see-saw enough to drop to the Stop position.
IF you did not pick up on that Stop of the MUTT takeup you soon had to stop again just after you got going after the change as there was usually one hell of a film pile up in the soundhead and a risk of film damage [uhoh]

Customer feedback from a couple of "moviephiles" I have in the audience who are usually quite picky... like I could see the DTS track tonight etc... quite liked the blue screen effect.
They commented it was like watching a video presentation [Roll Eyes]

The DTS track at times intrigues me as most times it is not visible and then I get a couple of prints that it stick out like the proverbial sore thumb. It is just on the painted black edge masking.
Maybe one day I will buy another slightly shorter focal length backing lens for scope and fill in the aperture plate edges a bit to bring the image back onto the masking exactly so no more DTS can be seen.
Anyone got a spare 62.5mm diam barrel lens of 4 1/2 focal length that will screw onto the B&L Blue ringed anamorphic I use??
Lindsay

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Carl Martin
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1424
From: Oakland, CA, USA
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 02-14-2006 06:29 AM

hmm, we never have to change lenses with a show running, but i would think closing (either) douser would be the way to go. if you just have black film running that won't help when the aperture is out. it doesn't sound very professional.

on occasion i've noticed a hair in the gate during the trailers. my procedure for that is to wait until the "credit portion" of the trailer when i can count on several seconds of non-essential image, close the hand douser, remove and wipe aperture (hopefully that's where the hair is stuck or i'm s.o.l.), replace it and open douser.

that's what i'd do if i had to change a lens as well.

carl

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Demetris Thoupis
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1240
From: Aradippou, Larnaca, Cyprus
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 02-14-2006 01:33 PM

Ok. I am confused!! Actually I think everyone is confused. We have the lamphouse Open/close handle and the projector dowser. How do we refer on the lamphouse Open/Close handle? By the way. I still believe that manual lens change with a turret is faster. I can do it on a V5 in less than 2 seconds by closing the lamphouse handle, changing apperture and turning the turret and re-opening the lamphouse handle again. It's a matter of practice really until you master yourself to the point of no mastering anymore! Consider I've been working at a changeover theater with 2 V5 since the age of 5 that adds something to it. No unfortunately that theater is closed. Oh how I miss the good old days when multiplexes where non-existent.
D

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99

posted 02-14-2006 03:15 PM

quote: Monte L Fullmer
Does anybody here call the lamphouse "dowser", a "damper" - so one can call the unit on the machine a "dowser" by itself?

I always just called the lamphouse douser the "douser" and the one on the projector the "changeover douser" and I still call it that today even though we have been changeover-less for 26 years now. (Admittedly it doesn't come up in conversation much.)

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Lindsay Morris
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 233
From: Darlington, WA, Australia
Registered: Sep 2002

posted 02-14-2006 08:17 PM

Carl,
You must be very lucky never having to change lens on a program.
I would not have to do lens change IF I never ran a trailer but in my view the trailer is one of the best marketing tools exhibitors have at their disposal [thumbsup]

Most nights I run 4 trailers ahead of the feature with the first one preceded by a Next Attraction snipe and the remaining 3 follow on in order of the published season program.
At times it drives me nuts to get trailers all in the same format and there does not appear to be any logic of how the various distributors strike their trailers.
You would expect that scope features would have scope trailers but not always and sometimes they have both WS & C/S versions.
Then out of the blue comes a Scope only version trailer for a flat only version of a feature... case in point recently was Charlie & Choc Factory feature released in OZ in WS but only trailers in C/S available... work that one out.
One some nights I had to change to scope just for that bloody trailer and then change back again as it finished [Mad]

Why they did not release the film in scope is beyond belief as the trailer was magic in scope but the final result of a WS version for the feature was just a bit lacking.

When you are changing formats it all comes down to time IE how quick you can do the change.
If I work real hard I can do the change in just on 5 secs but it is a scramble and rather than have any stuff ups I allow 10 secs and it is cruisy at that [Big Grin]

Once the show has started I like to keep the screen lit and the blue leader does that and at no stage does the audience ever wonder if there has been a breakdown at the back.
Unlike a recent session at a local complex where the scope lens failed to fully rotate or lock in position and we were treated to about a 15min almost diagonal scope image before somebody could be found to fix it [uhoh]

Douser or dowser both mean the same and spelt both those ways in various publications I have read over the years... I think most of us get the general meaning though.
Whether you shut the douser/dowser, use black or blue film or do the lens change on the run as many do over here it all comes back to personal preference and what sort of gear you are using.

I certainly do NOT like stopping as I MUST go over and check that bloody MUTT and that takes time. But IF I have to stop for any other reason I DO take my time and make sure that when I start again there is no MUTT over-run problems, the sound does not brrrr up to speed but is faded up instead and the light is smoothly brought up to full illumination.
The least you can do for your audience is smooth restoration of the program [thumbsup]

Lindsay

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Carl Martin
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1424
From: Oakland, CA, USA
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 02-15-2006 04:44 AM

lindsay,

in the u.s. it's most common to only play flat trailers before a flat feature and scope before scope. in the u.k. i understand it's always flat trailers regardless. it sounds like you're somewhere in between.

especially on our main screen, doing a lens change on the fly would be a royal pain. both the top and side masking is movable, with no preset stops. it can't be set properly unless the onscreen image has bright edges all around, which is often not the case with letter- and pillarboxed trailers, or features that start with a company's logo on a black background. the control is touchy and often over/undershoots so we have to go back and forth a bit. also, we have a framing change between flat and scope. and no, there's no turret.

i still don't see how the aperture is removed with the douser(s) open without throwing light on the masking from the perfs etc.

carl

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Thomas King
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 119
From: Sheffield, Yorkshire, England
Registered: Oct 2004

posted 02-15-2006 09:03 AM

We do manual lens changes, and although we have six feet of opaque for the changeover (more than is nesscary, granted, but some of our projectionists are a bit slow) we still close the lamphouse douser, giving a sequence of close, lens change, gateplate, open, focus.

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