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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Missing DTS discs & how to deal with this recuring problem! (Page 1)

 
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Author Topic: Missing DTS discs & how to deal with this recuring problem!
Markus Lemm
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 113
From: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Nov 2005

- posted 01-21-2006 11:27 AM      Profile for Markus Lemm   Author's Homepage   Email Markus Lemm   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
This week we received prints for 'Good Night and Good Luck' and 'A History of Violence' both missing DTS discs. This is a common problem since we are a second run theatre. A quick fax and call to the proper people and two replies the next day. TVA who handles 'Good Night and Good Luck' in Canada says that the DTS discs don't exist. Alliance Atlantis who handles 'A History of Violence' says they can't find any DTS discs. Both excesses sound lame and like boldface lies, considering that we are the only theatre in town playing 'A History of Violence' there must be some discs somewhere.

I have read on other topics that getting DTS discs is a problem in other parts of the world and I've read some interesting solutions as well. Most of the time when we call or fax for discs we receive them in the next day or two. But recently we get the old 'Discs don't exist' line even for films that we know have discs like 'March of the Penguins'.

I propose two solutions.
1. DTS creates a FTP server with access to download either current DTS discs or a request system where a theatre can request a title and upon login to the FTP has access to the requested file. This would also save the cost of sending out physical copies.
2. We in internet community start a 'member based' email ring in which we can privately exchange DTS data files, maybe through gmail, I think it has 1 Gigabyte storage space. The average discs works out to about 800 Megabytes. I realize that DTS has copyrights and 'Unauthorized duplication is prohibited' as it boldly says on the top of DTS discs.

I say if DTS does not come up with a viable solution we should. I'm sure DTS would prefer to have a film shown in DTS, with a nice DTS logo, than in Dolby any day.

Thank you for reading my rant.

Markus Lemm
mlemm@hotmail.com

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99

- posted 01-21-2006 12:24 PM      Profile for Mike Blakesley   Author's Homepage   Email Mike Blakesley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The first solution you propose probably won't happen because the film companies don't want it to. They don't want their digital sound "out there" on the internet because they fear pirates would attach it to their otherwise-crappy-sounding bootlegs. (Probably a reasonable fear these days.) Besides, Brad here at Film-Tech has volunteered to set such a site up and they still don't want it.

As for the other solution -- probably a good idea if you could get cooperation from the right people. But still kind of risky from a legal standpoint. Get caught = get sued, probably.

(NOTE: You might want to change the thread title to be a bit more descriptive of what we're discussing here. Just use the edit function.)

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

- posted 01-21-2006 01:08 PM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The film distributors should absolutely make available CD images of DTS movies for theater operators to download.

They can have servers with changing passwords and other methods to limit downloads to only authorized managers who call for help. Besides, DTS theatrical CDs are completely useless to people who don't run movie theaters.

If the movie companies actually have a specific stance against making DTS CD images available for managers to download then it would be a stance of outright hypocrisy. These are the same folks who want to beam movies by satellite to theaters with digital video projection equipment installed. What in the hell is the difference between doing something like that and allowing a theater to download a DTS CD image!?

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Bill Enos
Film God

Posts: 2081
From: Richmond, Virginia, USA
Registered: Apr 2000

- posted 01-21-2006 03:30 PM      Profile for Bill Enos   Email Bill Enos   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I can't imagine why it would make any difference on Good Night & Good Luck--it is all talk with little music and no sound effects. A working CPxx in analog is all you'd need for it.

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Markus Lemm
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 113
From: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Nov 2005

- posted 01-21-2006 04:15 PM      Profile for Markus Lemm   Author's Homepage   Email Markus Lemm   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The print of 'Good Night and Good Luck' that we got has about 5 splices per reel. The film came in terrible condition, lots of white out over the entire first 10-12 frames of each reel. The DTS would just smooth out all the inperfections.

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Mathew Molloy
Master Film Handler

Posts: 357
From: The Santa Cruz Mountains
Registered: Nov 2000

- posted 01-21-2006 04:36 PM      Profile for Mathew Molloy   Email Mathew Molloy   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I seem to remember reading somewhere that the reason DTS discs aren't available to all - say via a FTP site - besides the supposed piracy issue is due to the issue of licensing by country. Wasn't Winged Migration not available in DTS in the U.S. but it was elsewhere (such as Canada)?

Nowadays if I get a print missing discs I send an email to both the distributor and to DTS saying "I need discs - here's everyone's contact info. and our fed-ex #" and DTS & the distributor take care of it and the discs show up by my first show. Kinda sux we have to pay shipping but that's the rule if we want the discs.

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Bruce Hansen
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 847
From: Stone Mountain, GA, USA
Registered: Dec 1999

- posted 01-21-2006 06:22 PM      Profile for Bruce Hansen   Email Bruce Hansen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
DTS should get busy and work on this problem. If theaters cannot get the discs, they will not be buying new DTS players. This could put DTS out of business. I like DTS, and I don't want them to go away.

The piracy issue, in this case, is just silly. The pirate would have to have a DTS player to play the discs. Laying the audio back to the video would require edits every few minutes in order to keep the audio and video in sync. Pirates are into turning a quick buck, and don't much care about quality. No pirate is going to go through all the editing necessary to lay the DTS audio back on to the video. Wake up Hollywood.

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Michael Brown
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1522
From: Bradford, England
Registered: May 2001

- posted 01-21-2006 08:49 PM      Profile for Michael Brown   Email Michael Brown   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Bill,

One of the main advantages of digital sound is that it makes dialog much better.

Most of the cinemas I visit have digital sound, on the odd occasion I watch a movie in SR, the first thing I notice is how bad the dialog is.

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Dustin Mitchell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1865
From: Mondovi, WI, USA
Registered: Mar 2000

- posted 01-21-2006 09:12 PM      Profile for Dustin Mitchell   Email Dustin Mitchell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Bruce Hansen
The piracy issue, in this case, is just silly. The pirate would have to have a DTS player to play the discs. Laying the audio back to the video would require edits every few minutes in order to keep the audio and video in sync. Pirates are into turning a quick buck, and don't much care about quality. No pirate is going to go through all the editing necessary to lay the DTS audio back on to the video. Wake up Hollywood.
Wrong. Stolen DTS discs are commonly used in pirating-either as a means to quickly 'translate' camcordered movies into different languages or to just 'clean up' the sound to get rid of ambient noise (coughing, talking, etc). At the Showest 2005 piracy seminar the audience was shown about 5 clips (hard to remember how many now) of camcordered movies that had been given the DTS treatment. I was quite surprised at the quality. All this is the reason (presumably) that DTS timecode generators are no longer sold and the discs are now encrypted.

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Martin Brooks
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 900
From: Forest Hills, NY, USA
Registered: May 2002

- posted 01-21-2006 09:19 PM      Profile for Martin Brooks   Author's Homepage   Email Martin Brooks   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Michael Brown
Bill,

One of the main advantages of digital sound is that it makes dialog much better.
I completely agree. Dialog intelligibility is probably the most important factor in quality sound in the cinema. If you have a screen with a great A-chain and B-chain and great acoustics, SR-analog might be fine, but in general, digital is always going to have a bit more high end and a crisper sound and is going to be easier to understand.

(Especially for us folk who have been made deaf by over-loud presentations.)

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99

- posted 01-22-2006 08:30 AM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Since the distributors purchase the disk from DTS for the title they encode they choose based on what is there own reasons who can get disks
typically Alliance releasing does not provide disks for any titles even in first run even if it had a DTS release elsewhere

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Jesse Skeen
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1517
From: Sacramento, CA
Registered: Aug 2000

- posted 01-22-2006 12:40 PM      Profile for Jesse Skeen   Email Jesse Skeen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Bruce Hansen
DTS should get busy and work on this problem.
They'll try to get all of you in trouble for bitching about it before they do that!

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

- posted 01-22-2006 04:19 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Mike Blakesley
(NOTE: You might want to change the thread title to be a bit more descriptive of what we're discussing here. Just use the edit function.)
This thread will be deleted if the title is not corrected within 48 hours by Markus. The rules are very clear in this regard.

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Richard Fowler
Film God

Posts: 2392
From: Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA
Registered: Jun 2001

- posted 01-23-2006 11:48 AM      Profile for Richard Fowler   Email Richard Fowler   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
DTS film licensing usually has 400 disks to a order. It is up to the studios and distributors to add to this and distribution and tracking. The XD-10 is designed to handle "networked" information and there are future plans in some countries to use this feature to distribute sound tracks....still in the early stages [Wink]

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Brian Guckian
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 594
From: Dublin, Ireland
Registered: Apr 2003

- posted 01-23-2006 08:01 PM      Profile for Brian Guckian   Email Brian Guckian   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If one views the DTS disc as a physical part of the print ...this is the solution I think.

How to get that into people's heads is the challenge.

Essentially you want to have it that everyone, from sales and marketing through to the dispatchers and couriers, gets that there is something horribly wrong if a film released in DTS has no DTS discs!

Right now, I think the malaise is that the DTS disc is seen as separate to and not a part of, the print.

Head scratching time...

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