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» Film-Tech Forum   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » MIT M4a automation relay problem (Page 1)

 
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Author Topic: MIT M4a automation relay problem
Frank Dubrois
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 896
From: Cleveland, OH
Registered: Mar 2005


 - posted 01-18-2006 02:52 AM      Profile for Frank Dubrois     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I think the relays are the problem, heres why:

Picture two projectors, one works perfectly, the other has issues with the changeover opening, lights dimming, projector starting immediately. I swapped ALL relays in the automations of both projectors, relay for relay, and put them in the exact same spot. I figured, if the relays were the problem, the problems were having with the bad projector would transfer over to the working projector. To my surprise, BOTH projectors work fine with no problems....for now. The reason I say that is, I've tried this before and within a month or so the problem will come back or something different will start to occur (like the lights coming up after the last trailer, or the lights not dimming after the last trialer) really weird stuff. If I'm simply swapping relay for relay, and now we are problem free, whats causing our problems to keep coming back? When they come back, it will simply be a matter of either swapping relays again or most likely just removing and re-inserting them. Before removing them, I check to make sure they were securely seated, and they all were. This simply doesnt make any sense. Anyone come across this? Is there a fix?

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Brad Allen
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 688
From: Evansville, IN, USA
Registered: May 2000


 - posted 01-18-2006 01:08 PM      Profile for Brad Allen   Email Brad Allen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Just for fun, I would buy some of Marks favorite contact cleaner, Caig Deoxit. Unplug anything that will unplug, spray the male and female portion of the connectors. Plug them in and out once or twice. Spray them again as per Caigs instructions. Reseat them.

I've cured problems like this before with contact cleaner.

Be sure to turn off the power first.

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Frank Dubrois
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 896
From: Cleveland, OH
Registered: Mar 2005


 - posted 01-18-2006 02:43 PM      Profile for Frank Dubrois     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I thought of that as well. How long does the projector need to sit after spraying the cleaner inside the female portion of the contacts? I dont want to short anything out.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16279
From: Bountiful, Utah
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 01-18-2006 09:53 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Frank,

You certainly seem to be having problems with that MIT stuff! If you do the Caig cleaner thing do use it very sparingly and apply it to just the relay contacts then seat the relay in its socket. The De-Oxide will do the rest of the work for you. I wouldn't want to say for sure that this will cure your problem though. I suspect that other evil forces are at work there.

Mark

Mark

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Frank Dubrois
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 896
From: Cleveland, OH
Registered: Mar 2005


 - posted 01-18-2006 09:58 PM      Profile for Frank Dubrois     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Its hard to tell what the deal is. The cleaner sounds like the best possible solution at this point. Like I said earlier, to temporarily fix the problem, removing and replacing the relays resolve and problems, but they do come back. What would cause these contacts to go bad so fast? If this doesnt solve the issues, what else could it be??

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16279
From: Bountiful, Utah
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 01-19-2006 08:31 AM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If the relay sockets are soldered directly to the main circuit board I'd be looking for cold/poor solder work!

Mark

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Frank Dubrois
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 896
From: Cleveland, OH
Registered: Mar 2005


 - posted 01-19-2006 06:03 PM      Profile for Frank Dubrois     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
But 4 machines all doing the same thing?? I wouldnt think poor soldering would be the culprit there. 1 projector MAYBE, but all 4 doing the same thing to varying degrees?

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9473
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 01-19-2006 09:45 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Have you contacted the installer or MIT regarding the problem

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16279
From: Bountiful, Utah
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 01-19-2006 09:56 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Back in the 70's when I was a bench tech at Panasonic I repaired hundreds of the same models of different products for bad solder joints. Solder is an expensive commodity in manufacturing facilities.....

Mark

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Frank Dubrois
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 896
From: Cleveland, OH
Registered: Mar 2005


 - posted 01-19-2006 11:25 PM      Profile for Frank Dubrois     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
We have contacted the installer. They are no help at all.

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9473
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 01-20-2006 07:12 AM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well assuming that they got paid for the job then contact the manufacturer directly the warranty (iff still under it) lies with them if it is a manufactureing defect

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16279
From: Bountiful, Utah
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 01-20-2006 09:01 AM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have to confess that when there are MIT problems Bevan seems to be no where to be found........

Mark

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Bevan Wright
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 176
From: Fountain Valley, CA, USA
Registered: Sep 2003


 - posted 01-20-2006 10:37 AM      Profile for Bevan Wright   Author's Homepage   Email Bevan Wright   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Frank, give me a call 714-751-7998.

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Timothy Eiler
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 125
From: Litchfield , Minnesota, USA
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 01-20-2006 02:25 PM      Profile for Timothy Eiler   Author's Homepage   Email Timothy Eiler   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Frank Dubrois
the other has issues with the changeover opening, lights dimming, projector starting immediately
Had the same problem after a couple of years of use Replacing the bad relays fixed it

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12322
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 01-20-2006 04:59 PM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Wow...found in about 1.5-hours!

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