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Author Topic: Sony DFP-R2000 Problem Chase Taylor Expert Film Handler Posts: 175 From: Troy, Alabama, USA Registered: Mar 2001 posted 09-20-2005 01:29 PM                        I'm having a problem with my SDDS system (DFP-D2000 and DFP-R2000). I think I've tracked down the problem to the reader. I'm only getting the Left, Center, and Left Surround channel with normal play back. When I cover up the sound track side of the SDDS track at the reader I get all six channels (I assume that I'm getting the backup tracks from the other side. When I cover up the non sound track side of the SDDS track I loose all channels. I know there is probably some detail I've left out that you guys need. Thanks for the help. Chase Taylor  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 09-20-2005 02:06 PM                     ..wonder if you have an LED getting ready to poop out for that outboard track .. it does happen when the LED begins to fade. A slick little trick is to cover up that one LED with black tape and let the inboard LED take over completely. Or, turn off the power supply that is driving that one LED..be easier. -Monte  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 09-20-2005 02:10 PM                     No don't do that, because the "backup" tracks are of noticeably lower quality and that sounds terrible. I've actually never heard of this so I unfortunately don't have anything to recommend other than to get out the scope and check the alignment on the reader.  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 09-20-2005 02:20 PM                     quote: Brad Miller because the "backup" tracks are of noticeably lower quality and that sounds terrible. ..interesting. Wonder why that the inboard track is more crappier than the outboard track. You think that SONY would want the same for both tracks so there wouldn't be that much of a noticable difference between the two. Would it be a processor adjustment then per each track that could be out or something. Granted, I'm just guessing here since I haven't worked with SDDS and that format is extremely rare to find around here. thx, Brad. - Monte  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 09-20-2005 02:28 PM                     4 of the 8 channels are full quality and the other 4 are low quality on each side of the film. If the inboard side fails, the outboard can continue. During normal operation the 4 high quality tracks from each edge are used together to obtain 8 high quality channels.  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 09-20-2005 03:08 PM                     Ouch! that kinda sucks the big one then when one side starts to crap out. But, another question then: why of the two different qualities - high and low? Wouldn't you think that, once again, SONY would want all 8 tracks, each from both sides, to be equal in quality? (unless it's a go-figure thingey). thx-Monte  |  IP: Logged Daryl C. W. O'Shea Film God Posts: 3977 From: Midland Ontario Canada (where Panavision & IMAX lenses come from) Registered: Jun 2002 posted 09-20-2005 03:38 PM                        I'm sure they would, but thankfully SONY has no control over physics. Thus they can only fit what will fit, and that's 4 high quality and 4 lower quality tracks per side.  |  IP: Logged Chris Trainor Expert Film Handler Posts: 161 From: Greenville, RI, USA Registered: Jun 99 posted 09-20-2005 06:51 PM                        Monte: Not enought real-estate on the edges of the film to fit in the data rate needed for all high quality tracks and backups. Sony however is already running the highest bitrate for digital sound on film (in theory DTS can be higher, but for regular 35mm stuff doesn't choose to use that ultrahigh bitrate). In theory with some of Sony's newer compression codecs that are out there they could come out with a model that probably had higher quality sound on all tracks including backup, but I dont' think anyone would buy it after the shafting they got from Sony on SDDS. --chris  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 09-21-2005 04:18 AM                     Thx all, for your help on this topic for me, since I'm in the dark with SDDS Yet, another question: I've heard of some theatres that can run SDDS without any problems, yet I've heard of other theatres can run SDDS for only a week or two then big time dropoffs in error rates to where there is output issues - all related to where the tracks are on the film: where there is most wear being on the edge of the print. Are both above right, or is an individual theatre problem? thx-Monte  |  IP: Logged Dominic Espinosa Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1172 From: Boulder Creek, CA. Registered: Jan 2004 posted 09-21-2005 04:56 AM                     quote: Monte L Fullmer ..wonder if you have an LED getting ready to poop out for that outboard track .. it does happen when the LED begins to fade. I know this is simple but it hasn't been asked yet. Have you tried other SDDS tracks? Does it do it on everything? I've actually seen 2 trailers and a feature reel with bad SDDS tracks on them in the last month. As for the actual issue I'd try Monte's original suggestion and Brad's suggestion of checking reader alignment. The manual's in the Manuals section (duh) and it has everything I've ever needed for our SDDS unit outside of some issues we had with our APR board which were resolved by Cinematech. I don't happen to have their number handy but I'll look for it tomorow at work. --Dom  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 09-21-2005 05:45 AM                     Well Monte, you're right and you're also right. Some projectors are notorious for being able to run a film dry and damage the SDDS / SRD tracks very quickly (Christie is generally the worst) and other projectors tend to be able to run a film for thousands of passes dry without any noticeable abrasion (Century is known for this). However ANY projector can run an SDDS / SRD track indefinitely if FilmGuard is used on it. The reason for the quick wear on some projectors when running the film dry is because if there is any dirt or emulsion deposit on the gate it acts like a knife and literally scrapes the emulsion right off...which means there is missing data on the audio track. A print that is properly lubricated doesn't "shed" during projection, so afterwards the projector is still essentially clean. A clean projector at the end of a show is what it takes to be able to run SDDS / SRD prints for any length of time.  |  IP: Logged Chase Taylor Expert Film Handler Posts: 175 From: Troy, Alabama, USA Registered: Mar 2001 posted 09-21-2005 10:33 AM                        Same problem on each print I try. I've never aligned an SDDS reader only a SRD reader I'm sure it is not much different. Thanks for the help. Chase Taylor Edit: Is there any documentation on how to align the DFP-R2000. Chase  |  IP: Logged Mark J. Marshall Film God Posts: 3188 From: New Castle, DE, USA Registered: Aug 2002 posted 09-21-2005 12:13 PM                    Edit: Correcting myself. The SIDE channels are mono. That is, left, left-extra, and left-surround are mixed as a single LEFT backup track, and then there is also a backup center channel that's compressed. On the other side, right, right-extra, and right-surround are mixed as a single RIGHT backup channel, and there is also a compressed subwoofer backup track. So each side contains four full range channels, and TWO backup tracks. Which makes things really interesting in an eight channel setup because the left-extra or right-extra channel (depending on which side failed) lights up all of a sudden. If I have one side of SDDS failing, I drop things out to analog. Even SR played through A sounds better than SDDS in DCM mode in my opinion.  |  IP: Logged Michael Schaffer "Where is the Boardwalk Hotel?" Posts: 4143 From: Boston, MA Registered: Apr 2002 posted 09-21-2005 12:33 PM                        I think you are right. One side (the analog soundtrack side) contains RE, R, Rs and Sw. The other side contains Ls, L, LE, C. Each side only contains a mono sum of the opposite side plus the C and and Sw channels are mirrored 1:1 on the respective other side. Are the C and Sw backup channels actually more compressed than the regular C and Sw channels? I don't remember. Anyway, so there are 6 channels total on each side. The problem you described with the extra channels suddenly lighting up is certainly quite well audible when you have a print that is actually 6 channels. If possible, I would switch off the amps or mute the LE and RE tracks in the setup software when you play 6 channels. Then it is much less noticeable. Chase - in addition to the SDDS literature Brad provides here, all the manuals are on sdds.com.  |  IP: Logged Chris Trainor Expert Film Handler Posts: 161 From: Greenville, RI, USA Registered: Jun 99 posted 09-21-2005 01:31 PM                        Chase, right here on Film-Tech is the manual titled: SDDS adjustment of ccd output gain for DFP-R2000 (SCTB98-001) That tells you how to align a R2000. The only 'special' equipment you generally need is a 100mhz scope (not too hard to find these days). --Chris  |  IP: Logged

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