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Author Topic: Aerated Oil
Ian Bailey
Master Film Handler

Posts: 317
From: Nambucca Heads, Australia
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted 08-01-2005 03:57 AM      Profile for Ian Bailey   Email Ian Bailey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The oil in one of my Simplex 35's becomes very aerated after a month or so.I have another Simplex which i use the same oil in and it's fine.This problem only started to happen several months ago.What could be causing this?

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Louis Bornwasser
Film God

Posts: 4435
From: prospect ky usa
Registered: Mar 2005


 - posted 08-01-2005 05:43 AM      Profile for Louis Bornwasser   Author's Homepage   Email Louis Bornwasser   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Is the source of the oil the same? Have bearings in one of the machines been changed recently?

(At some point in the past, I had all oils analyzed. At that time, Simplex oil was approx. 10% varnish; an attempt to stop leaks.)

Louis

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Ian Bailey
Master Film Handler

Posts: 317
From: Nambucca Heads, Australia
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted 08-01-2005 07:00 AM      Profile for Ian Bailey   Email Ian Bailey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Louis
I'm using the same oil (not Simplex) out of the same container for both machines. The one that is aerating the oil is due to have bearings changed very soon-it has a noisy shutter shaft bearing.

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Janne Salminen
Film Handler

Posts: 8
From: Vantaa / Finland
Registered: May 2005


 - posted 08-05-2005 06:07 AM      Profile for Janne Salminen   Email Janne Salminen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi !

I've seen that on a couple of our projectors. It does not seem to have any effect on how well the projector is lubricated.
I don't really have an explanation why it happens, but it could be because of the oil pump. The cogwheel might be mixing small bubbles of air into the oil. I haven't noticed any connection between the condition of the bearings and these bubbles.

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9473
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 08-05-2005 07:34 AM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Ian is te angle of the machine the same compared to the oil level in the sump If the angle is steep I have seen the pump suck air with the oil causing bubles also is the one that has foam in it using a large lamp as I have also noticed if the machine is hot running that shows up

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8359
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004


 - posted 08-05-2005 02:42 PM      Profile for Monte L Fullmer   Email Monte L Fullmer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have four Mil2000's that the oil bubbles up during the run. One machine is using a 2.5k lamp and the others are just the 2k variety.

Oil levels are fine in all of these machines. I don't worry about the bubbling as long as these machines are getting their necessary lube (yet, I get a little curious on why some bubble and some don't) even after a recent oil change and screen/sump cleanout.

-Monte

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Dave Callaghan
Film Handler

Posts: 60
From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Jan 2003


 - posted 08-05-2005 11:38 PM      Profile for Dave Callaghan   Email Dave Callaghan   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Apart from the appearance - I gather aerated simply means small air bubbles in the oil as it comes out of the tube - is there an operational problem?

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8359
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004


 - posted 08-06-2005 03:26 AM      Profile for Monte L Fullmer   Email Monte L Fullmer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
could possibly be that the pump gear is "whipping" the oil - as I've noticed on some machines. Look towards the lower front of the case when looking inside the geartrain unit and you'll see the main gear drive that meshes with the oil pump actually "slinging" the oil towards the front of the case. Could also be that the sump is too full of oil, or an oil change is needed.

-Monte

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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6443
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 08-06-2005 11:52 AM      Profile for Randy Stankey   Email Randy Stankey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'm going to guess that it's the oil pump sucking air.

Can you tell if the intake line/strainer is completely submerged in the oil at all times? Check to see that it's installed correctly or that the line isn't bent. It might have a hole in it or the compression fitting that holds it onto the pump intake might not be tight enough. It may even be due to there not being quite enough oil in the projector. (Not really likely, though. Just spitballing.)

There is a modification to the oil pump mounting orientation that can be made if the projector is installed at an upward angle. In my old manual (for the PR-1003) it's called the "Drive-In Theater Modification". Basically, you flip the thing the other way 'round so that the intake is under the oil level at all times.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16279
From: Bountiful, Utah
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 08-06-2005 06:05 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
(At some point in the past, I had all oils analyzed. At that time, Simplex oil was approx. 10% varnish; an attempt to stop leaks.)

I have to laugh at that Louis and I'd like to agree. Not sure what oil you had analyzed but the Simplex oil from Strong we had analyzed a while back has almost no additives in it at all. The "varnish" you talk about is the result of the oil evaporating and is not something that is actually added to the oil itself. This "varnish" forms quiclky on idle machines which have sit in a hot or dry environment.... the oil evaporates leaving the varnish deposit. This is one major reason why everyone shuld be using Synthetics... varnishing just plain doesn't happen with them.

quote: Randy Stankey
I'm going to guess that it's the oil pump sucking air.

Thats a basic design flaw with the Simplex, its design intention was to be an "oil mnist" type mechanism but a simple mist wouldn't get you much life from the movement!. There is barely enough oil for the mechanism even with the seal kits installed. The old level of 3 ounces or so is increased to 6 to 8 ounces but thats still really very little oil. All other oil bath projectors I can think of utilize at least a pint of oil minimum and don't have the foaming problem as a result.

Mark

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8359
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004


 - posted 08-07-2005 02:18 AM      Profile for Monte L Fullmer   Email Monte L Fullmer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yep, there must be that healthy continual stream coming out of the tube above the slinger and a good healthy stream heading down to the INTermittent assembly and between the end frame and flywheel, to where one can see oil being forced out of the two drainage holes in the rear case of the INTermittent assembly above the flywheel drive gear.

Drip, drip,drip oiling doesn't do the trick...

Course, the big trick is to have the assembly in center position where one can read "FRAME" almost horizontal across the knob (or the "T" in the close horizontal position of the Mils and Apogees..), thus, the assembly is receiving the most oil from the drain tube.

I instruct my operators of this important procedure. Ain't no fun having to rebuild intermittent assemblies due to lack of oil. Yet, I'm glad that I can do such a repair task-quite special thing to do.

-Monte

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16279
From: Bountiful, Utah
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 08-07-2005 11:40 AM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Monte L Fullmer
Ain't no fun having to rebuild intermittent assemblies due to lack of oil.
Monte,

Normally these days its because there is a lack of any projectionists with actual brains....

Mark

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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6443
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 08-07-2005 12:19 PM      Profile for Randy Stankey   Email Randy Stankey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Replacing a $2,000.00 intermittent for lack of 20¢ worth of oil! [Mad]

I got an emergency call from a theater one day, telling me that the projector "didn't work". After several minutes of trying to decipher what "doesn't work" meant I determined that the intermittent had frozen up. That meant I had a 13 hour drive ahead of me!

I had a good idea of what happened even before I walked in the door. But, my suspicions were confirmed when I opened up the back of the Simplex 1030 and found it bone dry.

It's a lucky thing I had a spare on hand, in the trunk of my car. The last time I replaced one I ordered two. (Why buy one when you can have two at twice the price? [Wink] ) It didn't take me long to do the replacement.

I went outside to get my tools and I stopped the "User-B" on my way out. "How long has it been since anybody put oil in the projectors?" His answer?... C'Mon... Guess... "I dunno."
I told him to go around and make sure every projector had oil in it by the time I was done with my work. I figured he'd take 10 minutes to go down the line with an oil can. He'd have PLENTY of time.

When I got done, I walked over to the next machine and looked. No oil! The next one? None! I walked over to the bench where he was sitting, grabbed him by the shirt sleeve and towed him over to the tool cabinet. I put an oil can into his hand and towed him over to the nearest machine. "I want you to put OIL into EVERY projector! RIGHT NOW!!", I hollered.

With a "Harumph!" he took the oil can from projector to projector and put a couple squirts in each one while I followed him to be sure.

What an ignoranus! (Stupid at both ends!)

That's probably the last time those poor projectors ever had a good oiling! [Mad]

[ 08-07-2005, 06:34 PM: Message edited by: Randy Stankey ]

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Dieter Depypere
Master Film Handler

Posts: 343
From: Deutsch-Wagram, Lower Austria, Austria
Registered: May 2005


 - posted 08-07-2005 04:23 PM      Profile for Dieter Depypere   Email Dieter Depypere   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Quite an unbelievable story. I mean what kind of projectionists are those who don't check the oil level!? I guess those projectors weren't cleaned well either. Such morons should not be allowed to touch a projector *anymore*.

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Louis Bornwasser
Film God

Posts: 4435
From: prospect ky usa
Registered: Mar 2005


 - posted 08-07-2005 08:12 PM      Profile for Louis Bornwasser   Author's Homepage   Email Louis Bornwasser   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
In one theatre I was so sure that they were NEVER oiled, I drew a circle around the oil can after putting a small folded note (like a fortune cookie) under it. 14 months later when the next intermittent seized; I challenged the manager to show me logs when the projectors were oiled. "Move the oil can, I said" when they did a small note fluttered out from the bottom of the oil can with a date 14 months ago: The answer: NEVER. I had been the one who oiled them last. (Best argument for regular service.)

Louis

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