my profile | my password | search | faq & rules | forum home

» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Velvet in film trap (Page 1)

This topic comprises 3 pages: 1  2  3

Author Topic: Velvet in film trap Matthew Taylor Expert Film Handler Posts: 186 From: Essex, UK Registered: Mar 2004 posted 07-12-2005 12:18 PM                     I want to try an experiment to improve steadiness when running certain films. I have obtained some velevet that Kinoton supply for film traps. My question is whether it's best to stick the velvet to the gate bands or the film runners? My preference is the bands because at least if my experiment goes horribly wrong, I can get new bands rather than scrape off glue from the runners.  |  IP: Logged Thomas Jonsson Expert Film Handler Posts: 216 From: Bromolla, Sweden Registered: Sep 2003 posted 07-12-2005 03:27 PM                       Hi Matthew, I have Vic 5 with the new curved gates, and have velvet on the tension bands. Works beautifully, and I need just an absolute minimum of preassure on the bands. I use very handy self-adhesive velvet bands - no messy glue. Easy to apply, easy to pull off. If you would like to try them, just give me your address and I´ll send you a couple in an envelope. Thomas  |  IP: Logged Matthew Taylor Expert Film Handler Posts: 186 From: Essex, UK Registered: Mar 2004 posted 07-12-2005 04:57 PM                     Thanks Thomas. The only thing I'm concerned about is that sticking velvet to the gate bands will increase the pressure on the film too much, maybe causing excessive wear on the intermittent mech.  |  IP: Logged Rick Long Jr Expert Film Handler Posts: 211 From: Toronto, Canada Registered: Jul 2000 posted 07-12-2005 06:07 PM                     I've seen this done on oldstyle Vic-5 gates with not bad results, but the felt changes the position of the film in relation of the aperture, causing a wider fuzzy edge. This wouldnt be a problem on the newer curved gate or a Simplex curved gate type design - at least not to the same degree. I'd want to be sure that the addition of the felt to the pressure straps doesn't cause them to contact the aperture plate. What kind of projector?  |  IP: Logged Gilbert Travin Expert Film Handler Posts: 101 From: Villeurbanne / France Registered: Jan 2004 posted 07-13-2005 01:38 AM                        Accurate focusing is sometime impossible with velvet !  |  IP: Logged Thomas Jonsson Expert Film Handler Posts: 216 From: Bromolla, Sweden Registered: Sep 2003 posted 07-13-2005 04:58 PM                       The main reason I use velvet in my Vic 5 curved gate, is to isolate the film from the very hot metal tension bands. I have removed the stupid "pushers" above the gate, and the preassure is next to none. The velvet bands have to be changed after one or two months - being brushed and cleaned daily ofcourse. They also make the machine run a little smoother. Another reason for using velvet, was dirt getting stuck real hard on the tension bands because of the heat. Almost impossible to remove. At the Cinema Expo in Amsterdam this year, I spoke to very nice Mr Massimo Riva from Cinemeccanica about it. He told me they have come up with a special tool to clean the bands with. I haven´t seen it yet, but if it works, perhaps I´ll say goodbye to the velvet... Thomas  |  IP: Logged Pete Naples Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1565 From: Dunfermline, Scotland Registered: Feb 2001 posted 07-16-2005 11:00 AM                     Erneman machines have velvet as standard, seems to work fine, but you do have to change it regularly.  |  IP: Logged Stan Gunn Expert Film Handler Posts: 176 From: Clematis, in the hills near Melbourne Australia Registered: Aug 2000 posted 07-16-2005 10:16 PM                        Felt pads have been used on many machines at differant times for many years, but is only succesful on new or clean film. Stan.  |  IP: Logged Dominic Espinosa Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1172 From: Boulder Creek, CA. Registered: Jan 2004 posted 07-17-2005 04:31 AM                     I've never seen a machine (I'm sure they exist though) that you can't adjust the gate clearance. Wouldn't this be an automatic requisite if you're adding thickness to the bands via the felt?  |  IP: Logged Steve Scott Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1300 From: Minneapolis, MN Registered: Sep 2000 posted 07-17-2005 10:10 AM                     The Heights Theatre in Minneapolis has Velvet in their AAII's. I talked to TJ Hopland last week and he said the velvet bands run great in all aspects for them.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 07-17-2005 01:55 PM                     quote: Stan Gunn Felt pads have been used on many machines at differant times for many years, but is only succesful on new or clean film. Hallelujah! I tried velvet bands back when I had an AAII in my screening room and on a Christie projector. What a joke it was. If you were running anything but a lab new print, it made far more of a mess than anything else. Steadiness was NOT improved and print wear was greater as the velvet collected dust and dirt from the films. Velvet on the bands is a stupid, stupid idea.  |  IP: Logged John Pytlak Film God Posts: 9987 From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922 Registered: Jan 2000 posted 07-18-2005 12:56 PM                        If the film contacting components of the projector gate are running really hot, it can aggravate buildup of hardened gelatin emulsion that will severely abrade the film. If you can't touch the metal parts of the gate after running a while without getting burned, it's likely much too hot. Things that help: 1. Water cooled gates (duh!), especially for larger lamps. 2. Use heat filtration (dichroic coating on reflector, or auxillary filters that reflect infrared energy to a heat sink). Be sure the mirror and heat sinks are well cooled by sufficient air flow. 3. Be sure any heat sinks or shields are in proper position to protect metal components of gate from excessive radiant energy --- light should just slightly overfill the aperture 4. Be sure to clean the film-contacting components of the gate between shows, especially to remove any hardened buildups of gelatin emulsion. Scrape with your fingernail or a hard plastic pick (NEVER use metal tools that could cause a knick or burr on the gate components), and then use a stiff bristled toothbrush. 4. Between shows, apply a thin coating of a hard wax (carnauba or paraffin) to the film-contacting components of the gate. 5. Be careful not to let relative humidity get too high. Humidities above 65% can make the gelatin film emulsion softer and more likely to build up on a hot gate.  |  IP: Logged Thomas Jonsson Expert Film Handler Posts: 216 From: Bromolla, Sweden Registered: Sep 2003 posted 07-18-2005 03:37 PM                       Mr Pytlak, The build-up on the tension bands of the curved gates of my Vic 5 was stuck so hard it couldn´t be removed, no matter how I tried. I had to replace them. The water cooling of the curved gates doesn´t cool the gate, just the surrounding area. That´s why I started to use velvet, to isolate the film from the heat. In your opinion, is velvet a bad idea? Thomas  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 07-18-2005 06:23 PM                     I am a strong believer in using velvet bands in most projectors  |  IP: Logged John Pytlak Film God Posts: 9987 From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922 Registered: Jan 2000 posted 07-19-2005 10:37 AM                        quote: Thomas Jonsson The build-up on the tension bands of the curved gates of my Vic 5 was stuck so hard it couldn´t be removed, no matter how I tried. I had to replace them. The water cooling of the curved gates doesn´t cool the gate, just the surrounding area. Might you have defocused the lamp, such that the cone of light from the lamphouse is overfilling the aperture by so much that most of the energy hits the metal of the gate area, causing it to really heat up? With a lamp that is larger than needed, defocusing gives great illumination uniformity, but can put alot more heat on the metal around the aperture.  |  IP: Logged

All times are Central (GMT -6:00)

This topic comprises 3 pages: 1  2  3

Printer-friendly view of this topic

Hop To: Select a Forum: Category: Operations -------------------- Digital Cinema Forum Film Handlers' Forum Large Format Forum Ground Level Feature Info, Trailer Attachments & REAL Credit Offsets Category: Community -------------------- Film-Yak Film Handlers' Movie Reviews The Afterlife Bob Maar's Joke-A-Thon Category: Classified -------------------- Equipment and Supplies Wanted/For Sale Help Wanted/Seeking Employment Category: System -------------------- Software Beta Testing Forum

The Film-Tech Forums are designed for various members related to the cinema industry to express their opinions, viewpoints and testimonials on various products, services and events based upon speculation, personal knowledge and factual information through use, therefore all views represented here allow no liability upon the publishers of this web site and the owners of said views assume no liability for any ill will resulting from these postings. The posts made here are for educational as well as entertainment purposes and as such anyone viewing this portion of the website must accept these views as statements of the author of that opinion and agrees to release the authors from any and all liability.