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Author Topic: Kinoton FP-38E Bryan Fournier Film Handler Posts: 61 From: Greensboro, NC Registered: Dec 1999 posted 04-23-2005 01:28 AM                     Does anyone have "real world" experience working with a Kinoton FP-38E projector? If so, what are your experiences with this model? I would assume this projector is most often used in a screening room or academic environment. Any input would be helpful. Thanks  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 04-23-2005 01:39 AM                     Bryan, What do you want to know about them? I've put in many of them. They are one of the best machines ever for 16 or 35mm film. Since they are 16mm (and 35mm), you are correct that they find their way into academic, and screening room environments mostly. The upper-end of that model, the FP 38ES and FP 38ECII tend to find their way into studio applications (and labs).  |  IP: Logged Bryan Fournier Film Handler Posts: 61 From: Greensboro, NC Registered: Dec 1999 posted 04-23-2005 02:13 AM                     Steve, I am wondering how long it typically takes to convert from 35mm to 16mm and vica-versa. Also, is there a need to "step-down" the Xenon output when going from 35mm to 16mm? I'm assuming the dial down to 18 fps, for 35mm silent films, is simplified with the electronic intermittent (no need for TB Woods speed controller). What is your experience with this? Thanks in advance.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 04-23-2005 08:21 AM                     The conversion to 16mm and back is very fast once you've done it a couple of times. The 35mm runners and pad shoes never get taken off. The 16mm runner w/aperture (Kinton calls it the "guide") slips down in the middle of the 35mm area. The 16mm pad shoes for the sprockets "snap" in the middle of the 35mm shoes (they are offset so they only go in 1-way). The skate is merely dropped onto the same stud that the 35mm skate rests on. If you have water cooling, you insert a 16mm heat filter (just an aperture plate that blocks the light from hitting the back side of the delrin)...if you have air cooling, then you change the heat shields (held in by two splined screws). All in all, it can easily be done in a couple of minutes without tools. The only part that needs any tools are the reel spindles...they are held in by cap screws. The spindles are on a bayonet type screw arrangement so that you loosen the screws a few turns, then rotate the spindles off like you would an exciterlamp...install them in reverse order. For light...there is a lever in the back of the lamphouse to go between 16 and 35mm modes...only the lamp focus changes between th two formats...it actually works quite well. We have a 5KW system running 16mm without any problems. For speed...the Kinoton D and E series projectors use Lenze brand controllers as standard. If you need multiple speeds, like for silent you should order them that way so the right firmware is installed (to control the shutter and such on the main board). You generally get two preset speeds...by default they are 24 and 25fps. You can have variable speed with 2 or 3-digit readouts too. With the variable speed option (10-30fps), below 20fps, the shutter acts like a 3-wing shutter (three flashes before frame advance)...so see one of these machines running silent is truely incredible. There are many options for the E series projector so you should map out what features you want and have it configured...talk to your dealer. We have them running in special venue theatres with infrequent use as well as daily grind theatres like the AFI/Silver in Silver Spring, MD...they have been VERY reliable.  |  IP: Logged Manny Knowles "What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???" Posts: 4247 From: Bloomington, IN, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 04-23-2005 12:09 PM                     Steve's not lying! I've only had to do a conversion twice and it only takes a few minutes.  |  IP: Logged Bryan Fournier Film Handler Posts: 61 From: Greensboro, NC Registered: Dec 1999 posted 04-24-2005 01:09 PM                     Steve, Thank you for the information. This projector would be installed in an academic setting. Due to space constraints in the booth, the FP-38E seemed a possible solution to this dilemma by integrating 16 and 35 into one projector. The FP-38E is about 10k more than the FP-30E. With the declining use of 16mm, there was some debate about the return on investment. After talking to faculty and determining the usage of 16mm, we're leaning toward a changover booth with 1 FP-38E and 1 FP-30E. With the proper reels the FP-38E should accommodate about 135 minutes of 16mm. This set-up should be more than enough to accommodate the needs of the university in regards to silent and 16mm.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 04-24-2005 02:50 PM                     I'm surprised that it is only $10K more for the FP 38E to the FP 30E...it is normally at least $20K more...sounds like a deal. We have done a single FP38E with an FP 30E many times so that 16mm is accommodated. You will get more than 138 minutes though. I believe it will top out at about 180 minutes (3-Hours). With the FP 38E you will have the best torque motors and take ups in the biz...the tension is maintained precisely from beginning of reel to the end, regardless of size. Kinoton uses a feedback mechanism to maintain proper tension. Only for start up does the projector need to know what size reel you are using (for that initial torque). I think you are making a wise choice in an FP30E/FP38E pair...they will work quite well for you and never fail to impress. Make sure both machines are specified for 2000m reels, even if you only plan to run 600m reels (2K) for 35mm...there is no size difference, only reel capability and it doesn't cost any more! FP 30E FP 38E Rear Door open on FP 38E (not your typical projector...it looks even more unnatural when a laptop is hooked up to it for tweeking it up)  |  IP: Logged John Hawkinson Film God Posts: 2273 From: Cambridge, MA, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 04-24-2005 10:52 PM                     Wow, conversion? I had always assumed (without ever really having looked at one) that the FP38E didn't require real "conversion" to switch between formats. My baseline for this is our Bauer U4's, which have Bauer Selekton II's mounted on the front. Conversion takes about 15 seconds: Select the 16mm condenser lens in the turret, depress the lever and slide the Selekton in front of the optical path, and set the 35mm intermittant to the dwell position. Are there any modern 35/16 projectors that can match that? --jhawk  |  IP: Logged Bryan Fournier Film Handler Posts: 61 From: Greensboro, NC Registered: Dec 1999 posted 04-25-2005 12:44 PM                     Steve, Due to the column design, it appears there is nowhere on the FP-30/38E to mount a film cleaner/bracket (ie Kelmar). Is this the case? If so, do those using this set-up mount their cleaners to the rewind/inspection bench or do they even use one at all?  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 04-25-2005 01:51 PM                     Actually, Due to the column design, you can mount most anything anywhere you want. Kinoton does offer an electrostatic type cleaner. However, to use a media cleaner, you merely need to mount the cleaner where you want. For our customers, I mount the cleaner on the rewinder, thus one cleaner works for as many machines as needed...also...no streaking on that first show when using Film-Guard. Do a search on High Speed rewinding and you will find my pictures of a Kelmar film cleaner mounted to a Kelmar rewind table....pretty easy all in all...just a drill and tap are needed. Yes, John there is a conversion...I'll put the FP 38E up against ANY other 16mm projector for picture and sound...it embarrasses them all...even the great Bauer Selekton. So it takes you a couple of minutes to convert...big deal.  |  IP: Logged John Hawkinson Film God Posts: 2273 From: Cambridge, MA, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 04-25-2005 10:54 PM                     I think I'm spoiled ...tee case I think of is being able to, say, changeover from 35 trailers (proj. 1) to 16mm short (p.2) to a 35mm short (p.1) to a 35mm feature (p.2). Yeah, I guess it does not happen that often. Even in our sometimes changeover-happy existance (e.g. multiple scope/flat c/o during our trailers, as governed by only having scope versions of some trailers), it's rare to c/o to anything other than a full length 35mm reel after a 16mm short. Though I guess flat/scope/16/scope might be a sequence we'd encoutner that would necessitate conversion during a 2.5min trailer. I guess I'm just surprised its not a design consideration. --jhawk  |  IP: Logged Larry Shaw Expert Film Handler Posts: 238 From: Boston, MA, USA Registered: Mar 2000 posted 05-06-2005 05:41 PM                        John, Needing to change formats faster than the 38E's SOP will allow is indeed rare. Using simple tricks like only tightening one of the 3 reel shaft screws for a short can shave off a bit. Some have used special reel modifications (similar to the old "doorknob" hubs used on DP-70's) to avoid reel shaft changes altogether. In any case, I wouldn't trade a FP-38E for a U4 16/35 in a million years. Those are custom made machines (our records show only 5 made), with a forest of relays and wiring (so typical of Bauer), and rather sorry light output. Despite my many repair calls on your machines, I can't recall if yours are equipped with framable movements or the frameable gates. If equipped with the latter it would represent an even greater disparity. And of course the U4 16/35 is utterly unable to handle reverse or high speed operation, 2/3 blade, 70.6mm lenses, digital jump correction, remote focus/frame, etc. This is not to in any way denigrate the Selecton II, an excellent machine for its time. But comparing its engineering merits to a 38E is truly apples and oranges. Larry Shaw Kinoton America [Exclusive North American Distributor of Kinoton GmbH and Bauer] 8 Goodenough Street Boston, MA 02135-1903 Tel: 617-562-0003 x104 Fax: 617-787-4253 E-Mail: larry@kinotonamerica.com Website:http://www.kinotonamerica.com  |  IP: Logged

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