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Author Topic: Black "film" in gear box of Simplex 35 mystery. Brad Allen Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 688 From: Evansville, IN, USA Registered: May 2000 posted 03-22-2005 04:51 PM                     I've obtained said projector, it seems to be in good condition other than a black film all over the oil bath compartment. It wipes off easily, and does not feel gritty when rubbed between my fingers. Is this simply from the previous owner not changing the oil? Sign of more serious problems?  |  IP: Logged Darryl Spicer Film God Posts: 3250 From: Lexington, KY, USA Registered: Dec 2000 posted 03-22-2005 06:07 PM                    it can be issues with oil but at the same time I have found that it developes after the projector is ran in for a while during normal use. I have cleaned all of that stuff out before and none has come back.  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 03-22-2005 06:14 PM                     Dip a strong magnet into the oil and see if the balck migrates to it if so it is steel worn of shafts or gears  |  IP: Logged Randy Stankey Film God Posts: 6539 From: Erie, Pennsylvania Registered: Jun 99 posted 03-22-2005 09:34 PM                     I've seen this happen once, too. Never figured out what it was. Honestly, it seems more like graphite or black grease got mixed with the oil. There is no grit in the mixture. It mixes with the oil and stays suspended, even overnight. It coats the entire inside of the projector and clings. It doesn't run down. It clings pretty well. The first time I saw it I almost shit my pants because the glass was completely black when viewed from the outside. I thought the thing had been run without oil and all the gears & bearings were blowing their guts all over the inside. Except for the fact that the oil was completely black, the projector seemed to be running quite normally. I called Strong about it and they coulnd't give me an answer. They told me to change the oil, let it run for a while then change the oil again. I changed the oil twice within a two day period then changed it again a few weeks later. Most of the black was gone but you can still tell there is/was something in the oil. I don't think it will ever go away. My hunch is that somewhere down the line, somebody put some grease into the projector and it got mixed with the oil. Could have happened at the factory. Could have been some idiot. I don't know exactly when it happened because everybody in the theater was characteristically ignorant. To this day, I have never figured out what it was.  |  IP: Logged Brad Allen Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 688 From: Evansville, IN, USA Registered: May 2000 posted 03-22-2005 09:52 PM                     Wow Randy, your's was much worse than this one. I wish I had taken pictures before wiping it out. I'm going to try Gordon's magnet test, I still have the oil I drained out of it. The oil itself is not discolored that badly. I've wiped everything possible, going to run it with fresh oil for several hours, then drain it and see how it looks.  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 03-22-2005 10:54 PM                     Any idea how many hours on that machine and on the oil? That can be caused by not changing the oil, a failing component perhaps in the compensator, or grease from the ball bearings mixing with the oil... but the latter is unlikely in this case. For some dum reason Strong does not generally remove the shields from the bearings that face the oil side....... they wouldn't want them to be lubricated too well and last indefinately...... Actually leaving a small magnet in the oil sump is a VERY good idea as it will catch any steel particles and keep them out of the mechanism. Clean the magnet with each oil change. Mark  |  IP: Logged Randy Stankey Film God Posts: 6539 From: Erie, Pennsylvania Registered: Jun 99 posted 03-23-2005 09:37 AM                     Could have been a long time before the oil was changed in that projector. It was located at a theater known to be populated by idiots. It was the same place where they beat the shutter shaft with a ball pein hammer. (If you remember me telling that story.) To be honest, it might never have been changed. I know it was changed three times after the fact because I did it myself. After that, I did it on every other PM visit to that site. Before then is anybody's guess. The guy at Strong said that it might be grease from one of the bearings leaking out but he couldn't be sure unless the machine was disassembled and checked. There was no way in hell that I was going to put the house out of commission for a day just to find out so we resolved to just change the oil several times and keep an eye on it. It never showed signs of breaking down in over a year since I found it so I left it alone, except to change the oil at more frequent intervals. Now, since I've left, I betcha' they haven't changed the oil since! (What a bunch of retards!) I have been considering whether I should get a Cow Magnet and toss it into the back of the projector where the oil sump is. Now I am going to!  |  IP: Logged Brad Allen Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 688 From: Evansville, IN, USA Registered: May 2000 posted 03-23-2005 11:41 AM                     Well as far as hours, all I can do is guess. Projector was ran regularly for 20 years. As far as how long since the last oil change, I have no way of knowing. I will purchase a magnet today and see what I find in the drained oil. Then leave it in the sump long term. Should be interesting. How many hours is a good rule of thumb between oil changes normally?  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 03-23-2005 07:24 PM                     I reccomend very frequent oil changes in older Simplex's with no seals on the main drive. Every month running on a platter. For those with shaft seals and greater amounts of oil then every two months runing platters. No matter how you look at it even the ones with shaft seals have miniscule amounts of oil in them and really... no filter per say at all. It gets dirty fast and breaks down quicker than you might think. Clean-fresh oil is the surest route to trouble free projectors. Another route is to use 10 weight synthetic compressor oil. Its about the best for this machine and does not break down very fast... but there is still the dirt build up problem because of the lack of any real filter. The best filtration system in any projector I've worked with is the DP-70 and Phillips FP series 35mm machines which have an actual super fine mesh filter screen with a magnet inside that and then another magnet inside the intermittent(two magnets inside the FP movements). Its the MAIN reason these projectors still run like new after 50 years! NOw Strong still hasn't included any decent oil filtration in the Apogee . Be sure to affix that magnet so it doesn't affix itself to the steel main drive gear when its running . Mark  |  IP: Logged Brad Allen Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 688 From: Evansville, IN, USA Registered: May 2000 posted 03-23-2005 07:47 PM                     Thanks Mark. Makes sense. Ran projector for 3 hours with fresh oil. Let it sit over night. When oil was drained it was fairly black. Actually blacker than the oil that came out of it the first time. You could see the black floating in the oil sort of like clouds. Even after several hours of setting. Magnet left in oil for 4 hours. Magnet didn't pick up anything differant than the comparable piece of non-magnetized metal did that I put in the oil at the same time. Other words, just some of the black that tends to hang on anything it can.  |  IP: Logged Ian Bailey Master Film Handler Posts: 317 From: Nambucca Heads, Australia Registered: Jun 2003 posted 03-23-2005 08:05 PM                     Hi Brad I think you will find the black deposits is a common thing with Simplexes of that vintage.I think it is just more to do with the types of materials used in the shafts etc.What i found worked with mine is draining the oil and spraying the whole inside with a CONTACT CLEANER.This contact cleaner is a mild degreaser and leaves absolutely no residue.It is used for cleaning electronic components,relay contacts etc etc.You will see all the Black deposits drain out.Then I do a couple of oil changes over a two day period.You may have to repeat this process after a month or so then you should find it will stay clean for quitye a long time. Ian  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 03-23-2005 08:14 PM                     If it is non magnetic it is either from the bearings, fibre or if you happen to have the old rubbber shockmounted gears it could be from that as well  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 03-23-2005 09:01 PM                     quote: Ian Bailey What i found worked with mine is draining the oil and spraying the whole inside with a CONTACT CLEANER I basically did the same thing, yet used carburetor cleaner spray. Had one machine that would, after a oil change, the oil would get all caramel colored real quick, so I figured that this machine needed a good "degreasing." Sprayed it down with that cleaner, let it sit for a while to drain the gunk and the rest of the oil, then filled up the galley, let it run for a day. Then changed out that oil, pulled out the pump and took off the screen filter at the end of the pump, gave that unit a good spraying down to get that filter clean, with pump out, wiped out the galley of the sludge and started over. Unit has stayed clean since. Just like a old car-pull the pan and give it a good cleaning. -Monte  |  IP: Logged Brad Allen Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 688 From: Evansville, IN, USA Registered: May 2000 posted 03-24-2005 12:11 PM                     Not to doubt Monte, but isn't Carb Cleaner pretty harsh stuff? Wouldn't it remove the paint in the oil bath area?  |  IP: Logged John Pytlak Film God Posts: 9987 From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922 Registered: Jan 2000 posted 03-24-2005 12:52 PM                        The formulae of many carb cleaners contain the same solvents as paint removers: acetone, toluene, xylene, methanol, etc.  |  IP: Logged

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