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Author Topic: Ice Princess fade out/in confusion Jared Foley Film Handler Posts: 22 From: Madison, IL, USA Registered: Feb 2005 posted 03-19-2005 02:00 PM                     I'm wondering if anyone else had problems with the fade out and fade in at the 5-6 reel change. I'm positive I did the fade out correctly, but I apparently messed up the fade in for reel 6. I fixed it during the preview... or so I thought. We found out the next day that I failed in this attempt, so my manager fixed it. Then we found out HE failed as well. My complex manager told me to compare the head of another reel to the head of reel 6 to find out my splice mark. Are heads and tails ALWAYS the exact same length?? I find this hard to believe for some reason (not including safety tape of course). Also... why were there no black bars on the film? I freaked out thinking it was scope and that all the papers were wrong until I realized I could see a boom microphone at the top of the frame, and it's shadow on the bottom. Is this common???  |  IP: Logged John Pytlak Film God Posts: 9987 From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922 Registered: Jan 2000 posted 03-19-2005 03:07 PM                        Many films that are composed for 1.85:1 "flat" aspect ratio are shot with a full frame camera aperture. Unless an optical printer or digital intermediate is used to generate a "hard matte", the release prints may have a full frame image, so proper framing is important. Sometimes the full frame images are intercut with an images that have a "hard matte" if optical or digital effects are done.  |  IP: Logged Dominic Espinosa Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1172 From: Boulder Creek, CA. Registered: Jan 2004 posted 03-19-2005 03:54 PM                     The last frame is 24 frames after the second cue marks appear. The first frame is something like 45 frames from the 3 on the head leader. Had no problems cutting that one.  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 03-19-2005 04:11 PM                     ..find the "negative" leader splice that joined the leader to where the print begins. Another trick is to have an old sprocket laying around and draw lines between the sprocket's teeth were the frame lines would be in the four sprocket/frame standard. Then put the sprocket on the lead's any frame line, then roll that sprocket down the lead then mark on the edge of the film with felt marker, frame lines corresponding to the framelines marked on the sprocket. We used to do trailers this way. Gets it right every time. Brad has a post on finding framelines in tips section and should include how to do fade change splices. -Monte  |  IP: Logged Ryan Gardner Smith Film Handler Posts: 4 From: Albuquerque, NM USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 03-19-2005 10:14 PM                        For the fade-in on reel 6, all you have to do is look at the leader. It's a standard academy leader on this print, the numbers mark feet (16 frames). You just count 3 feet from the 3 or 6 feet from the 6, etc. An easy estimate is use your armspan. I'm about 6 feet tall, I grab the 6 with one hand and my arm span is to the first frame. For the fade-out on reel 5, it was said before: count 24 frames from the change-over cue. That's 24 from the last of the sequential frames of cues.  |  IP: Logged Mark J. Marshall Film God Posts: 3188 From: New Castle, DE, USA Registered: Aug 2002 posted 03-19-2005 11:59 PM                    Take another leader that you cut already and place it over top of the fade in leader so that the "3"s are on top of each other. Then you should be able to figure out where to cut this one pretty easily.  |  IP: Logged Mike Olpin Chop Chop! Posts: 1852 From: Dallas, TX Registered: Jan 2002 posted 03-20-2005 12:03 AM                     My leaders had a big white line with "Splice here" written on them.  |  IP: Logged Carl Martin Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1424 From: Oakland, CA, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 03-20-2005 04:35 AM                        quote: Dominic Espinosa The first frame is something like 45 frames from the 3 on the head leader. to be precise, it's 47 frames. that is, there's the "3" frame, then 47 frames of black, then the first frame of the show. sometimes the "3" is a "2" though, if the leader counts by seconds instead of feet. that's a general rule. i haven't handled ice princess so i don't know if there's some peculiar exception there. carl  |  IP: Logged Paul Konen Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 981 From: Frisco, TX. (North of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 03-20-2005 01:46 PM                     Again, another reason maybe why the fades should be included in the reel. Do you think whoever makes this choice is doing it because the splice would be hidden better because it is dark?  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 03-20-2005 01:57 PM                     I don't really understand the problem, the head splice location is easy to find with a footage counter and the tail location is easy using the cue marks and a footage counter, a fade in or out is placed where the content requires it and any one who is competent should be able to locate where t make the splice as leader and tail piece info is well documented and standardised  |  IP: Logged Cory Isemann Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 500 From: White Plains, MD, USA Registered: Jun 2004 posted 03-20-2005 02:16 PM                        I think the problem is that it's not often you have that type of reel change. What threw me was that it just went from cue marks to nothingness all the way to the end of the reel. We have a counter, which I used, but I had a little trouble figuring out where the frame lines were near the cue marks. Generally, are they right above the cue marks?  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 03-20-2005 02:56 PM                     quote: Gordon McLeod I don't really understand the problem..... I know where Gord is coming from, for us "OF'ers" remember when, while we were doing the changerover style, that a lot of movies had fadeout changeovers were placed in movies, and at the reel change, where that was an accepted method of making presenting a story - fading out between scenes, like going from ACT-I, to ACT-II and so forth in an opera. In the silent era and early talkie era, this was the common norm of projecting... ..just this new generation is "ignorant" on such matters, and it's really not their fault, but they were never trained on this classic "chapter changing" procedure on how to make the "chapter" fade out completely and the next "chapter" fade in. To me, when I see a movie that the fadeout/fadein procedure cut in the middle, even with trailers, is a very sloppy, unprofessional presentation. It's like reading a book, with skipping the last two paragraphs of the previous chapter, and then skipping the first two paragraphs of the next chapter. -Monte  |  IP: Logged John T. Hendrickson, Jr Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 889 From: Freehold, NJ, USA Registered: Apr 2001 posted 03-20-2005 03:31 PM                     Sorry Gordon and Monte. Here's an "OFer", so to speak, who doesn't agree with you. I do understand the problem. Jarred is a newbee who is interested in learning, and much to his credit, like many young people similarly interested in good presentation, he has come to the right place. Or has he??? Yes Gordon, to quote you "any one who is competent should be able to locate where t make the splice as leader and tail piece info is well documented and standardised." But Jarred, and others, seek information that they don't have immediate access to. Are we to put these people down with condescending comments and then expect that the state of the industry regarding presentation is going to improve? I don't think so. Instead of getting more people to learn and eventually contribute, we are only going to chase them away.  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 03-20-2005 07:16 PM                     It isn't condescending but factual and the information is relatively easy to find if one searchs this site alone  |  IP: Logged Greg Routenburg Expert Film Handler Posts: 178 From: Toronto, ON, Canada Registered: May 2003 posted 03-20-2005 10:08 PM                     I sympathise with Jared. I started as "Silly"plex was laying off their union projectionists in favor of training ushers to run their booths. None of the finer points of presentation were explained to me either and so I had to rely on alot of info from this forum aswell. Later I was very fortunate to work with and learn from some very experienced people, Gordon included. All I can say is it's nice to see other young people taking an active approach to learning the trade. So Jared my advice to you is keep asking these sorts of questions, you're probably helping a whole lot of others in much the same position as yourself.  |  IP: Logged

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