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Author Topic: BH perforations on release prints
Dan Lyons
Jedi Master Film Handler

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From: Seal Beach, CA
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 - posted 01-18-2005 11:52 AM      Profile for Dan Lyons   Email Dan Lyons   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
How often do release prints get printed on stock with BH perforations? (the type with the rounded perf corners, like you find on PA-35 test film)

I ask because I encountered this for the first time this weekend. I ran a recent print of "Doctor Zhivago" that was on Kodak 2383, 1999 film stock. It had BH perforations. [Confused]

Any ideas?
Mr Pytlak?

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John Pytlak
Film God

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 - posted 01-18-2005 12:11 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Kodak VISION Color Print Film 2383 is available with BH-1866 and BH-1870 perforations, primarily for "background plate" projection applications that use pin-registered movements. Of course, 35mm release prints normally use film perforated KS-1870:

http://www.kodak.com/US/plugins/acrobat/en/motion/catalog/printfilm04.pdf

http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/support/h1/sizesP.shtml#perfs

quote:
Perforations
Why All the Sizes and Shapes?
In the early days of 35 mm motion pictures, film perforations were round. Because these perforations were more subject to wear, the shape was changed to that now known as the Bell & Howell (BH) or "negative" perforation (Figure 41). This modification improved positioning accuracy and was the standard for many years.

During this time, 35 mm professional motion picture cameras and optical printers were designed with registration pins that conformed to negative (BH) perforation. To this day, newly designed professional equipment incorporates registration pins conforming to the negative (BH) perforation. In 1989 Kodak introduced a stronger version of the Bell & Howell (negative) perforation. The radius of each corner was rounded by 0.005 inches. This small difference is almost imperceptible visually, but adds strength where the perforation is most vulnerable to tearing during stress periods while being transported through equipment. This is especially true during highspeed photography. This corner radius change does not necessitate any equipment change worldwide, and yet improves product performance.

Another Bell & Howell perforation performance improvement was introduced by Kodak in 1989. This is a reduction in perforation-dimension tolerance from the ANSI specifications. This tighter tolerance format is used where film registration is very critical, such as in travelling matte photography or separations. The tighter tolerance perforations are standard on all Kodak 16 mm camera films and some 35 mm films.

The high shrinkage of older films on nitrate base made the negative perforation a problem on projection films due to excessive wear and noise during projection as the sprocket teeth ticked the hold-back side of the perforations as they left the sprocket. The sharp corners also were weak points and projection life of the film was shortened. To correct this, a new perforation was designed with increased height and rounded corners to provide added strength. This perforation, commonly known as the KS or "positive" perforation, has since become the world standard for 35 mm projection print films.

During the period when the production of color prints involved the multiple printing of separation negatives onto a common print film, a third design, known as the Dubray-Howell perforation, was introduced. It had the same height as the negative (BH) perforation to maintain the necessary registration but had rounded corners to improve projection life. This perforation is still available for special applications on certain films. Because shrinkage in current films is low, the shorter perforation height poses no projection wear problems. In 1953, the introduction of Cinemascope produced a fourth type of perforation. This wide-screen projection system incorporated 35 mm film with perforations that were nearly square and smaller than the positive (KS) perforation. The design provided space on the film to carry four magnetic sound stripes for stereophonic and surround sound.


Perhaps the print you had was originally made for a pin-registered application, and they kept the print for theatrical use. [Cool] Or someone grabbed the wrong cans of raw stock. [Roll Eyes]

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Leo Enticknap
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 - posted 01-18-2005 12:27 PM      Profile for Leo Enticknap   Author's Homepage   Email Leo Enticknap   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Or, given that this was probably a single print (or at least, one of only a small run) rather than a mass release, maybe the BH stock was more readily available in 2k lengths rather than the 6k rolls which I understand are more commonly used on the high-speed printers that produce large-scale runs of prints? Just a speculation.

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Dan Lyons
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quote: Leo Enticknap
maybe the BH stock was more readily available in 2k lengths rather than the 6k rolls which I understand are more commonly used on the high-speed printers that produce large-scale runs of prints? Just a speculation.
Might be the case. There were NO lab splices in any of the 12 reels [Smile]

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Tao Yue
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From: Princeton, NJ
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 - posted 01-18-2005 10:11 PM      Profile for Tao Yue   Author's Homepage   Email Tao Yue   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
That was a very limited release of Doctor Zhivago in 1999. As long as Warners was paying the overhead of a small print run, why not spend a bit more to ensure uninterrupted stock? After all, Sony struck dye-transfer Technicolor prints of Funny Girl, and IBTech is even more expensive for short print runs.

Too bad, I'd like to have seen Zhivago in 35. With 2383 print stock and DTS, it'd be like seeing it in 70 back in 1965, what with the improvements in color saturation, grain, steadiness, and sound.

Would be interested in seeing info about these sorts of one-off (or dozen-off) prints in Feature Info. But the print's probably out of your hands by now.

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Dan Lyons
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It looked like hell, you didn't miss a thing. It had heavy grain and poor contrast. In some scenes I felt like I was watching an Eastman print, in some shots the blacks were not black, but had a brownish/red look. The color timing between shots within some scenes varied, and color timing between reels was also off.
[puke]

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Dominic Case
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 - posted 01-19-2005 12:30 AM      Profile for Dominic Case   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Dan Lyons
It had heavy grain and poor contrast. In some scenes I felt like I was watching an Eastman print, in some shots the blacks were not black, but had a brownish/red look. The color timing between shots within some scenes varied, and color timing between reels was also off.

This sounds odd for a film that was re-released in 1999 after "restoration" which ought to lead to a proerly graded print. Purely speculating, but I'm wondering if what you've been sent is an early trial print from a new, unbalanced negative or something - and the lab used the stock to use it up, not expecting it to be a saleable print???

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Leo Enticknap
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I suppose that might be possible if this print dated from the start of a restoration project. I guess they might have taken a print off a surviving (i.e. faded) interneg, perhaps to screen to studio bosses or funding agencies in order to make the case to fund a full scale restoration involving a set of YCM seps (i.e. serious money). That would explain the poor contrast and brownish red look.

There again, was there any 'restoration' involved at all here? I seem to remember a re-release of Dr. Zhivago a few years ago, but this could have been just new prints, not a full-scale restoration. Given Scorsese's campaign and everything we now know about dye fading (not to mention the rapidly decreasing cost of fixing it digitally, though this wouldn't have applied in 1999), it's a bit of a shame if a studio did just decide to whack out some new prints from a pink interneg, but this was quite frequently done back in the '80s and early '90s.

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Tao Yue
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 - posted 01-19-2005 11:07 PM      Profile for Tao Yue   Author's Homepage   Email Tao Yue   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Heavy grain is surprising considering how carefully Freddie Young lit and shot the film. Plus he has a reputation for shooting very thick negatives so that'd aid in dye preservation.

People have gotten all sorts of mistakes from the depots before, who knows? Given the BH perfs and the poor color balance, Dominic's hypothesis seems reasonable. But of course, without more firsthand information on the print, this is all just reasoned speculation.

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Leo Enticknap
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quote: Tao Yue
Plus he has a reputation for shooting very thick negatives so that'd aid in dye preservation.
Not if he shot on a negative stock that was susceptible to fading, it wouldn't. In fact that would probably exacerbate the fading, thereby requiring heavier correction when printing seps for preservation.

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John Pytlak
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 - posted 01-20-2005 12:49 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I don't know the storage history of the negative and masters for "Dr. Zhivago", but there are many examples of original and duplicate elements from that era surviving quite well (e.g., the recent new prints of "Sound of Music", "Hello Dolly", "Patton", etc.). Processing (especially washing out residual chemicals like thiosulfate) and storage conditions (SMPTE Recommended Practice RP131, Standard ANSI/NAPM IT9.11) often have more to do with long term image stability than the choice of film stock.

quote: Leo Enticknap
In fact that would probably exacerbate the fading, thereby requiring heavier correction when printing seps for preservation.

Since dye fading is usually manifested as a loss of contrast or buildup of stain, a denser, "richer" negative is usually better. There's more image to begin with, and less unreacted coupler chemistry left in the film.

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Leo Enticknap
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Agreed entirely that some '60s and '70s elements survive pretty well but others faded badly: my assumption was that storage conditions were the main variable here - i.e. if an element has been kept cool and dry throughout its life it'll probably be less faded than one shot on the same stock and developed the same way but which has been stored in a warm and/or humid environment. We certainly hold elements of different footage on the same stock type and from the same year, but with wide variations in the extent of the fading.

quote: John Pytlak
Since dye fading is usually manifested as a loss of contrast or buildup of stain, a denser, "richer" negative is usually better. There's more image to begin with, and less unreacted coupler chemistry left in the film.
OK, but also a denser faded dye, even if it isn't fading as fast by the time duplication is attempted. Surely the denser emulsion will absorb more light in printing and therefore need greater refraction to correct the colour balance on the dupe? I'm probably being stupid and missing something; if so sorry...

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John Pytlak
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quote: Leo Enticknap
Surely the denser emulsion will absorb more light in printing and therefore need greater refraction to correct the colour balance on the dupe?
Yes, a denser negative requires more light to print. But as long as all the scene information is placed on the linear portion of the film's sensitometric curve, it should not compromise the ability to achieve a good color balance. If fading occurs, you have more image to work with when remedial methods (e.g., correction of contrast mismatch with separation exposures or digital restoration) are necessary.

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Leo Enticknap
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Many thanks.

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Bill Carter
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 - posted 01-21-2005 11:39 AM      Profile for Bill Carter   Email Bill Carter   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Is it possible this one was accidentally printed on some type on low-con stock intended for telecine?

Not too long ago, I had my hands on one of the 35's of Dr. Zhivago struck for the 1993 reissue (has Turner Entertainment in the end credits). Although that print was badly beaten up through mishandling, the color, contrast, and grain looked okay. Not breathtaking, but okay.

According to Dick May at Warner, original camera negative was used for those prints, with the exception of parts of reel one, and ALL of reel eleven, which had been damaged and replaced with dupe material many years before. New wet-gate interpositives and dupe negs were struck in '93 from that material.

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