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Author Topic: Threading Up Chase Hanson Expert Film Handler Posts: 172 From: San Diego, CA Registered: Oct 2004 posted 12-12-2004 04:33 AM                     We use Simplex Projectors (looks like a Millenium, but has removable gate like 35/XL) with a SDDS in the penthouse and some manner of cue dectotor on the bottom. And I cant really figure out, for the life of me, how its supposed to be 50% faster than down threading. I can downthread a projector in just under 2 minutes, after about a weeks practice I can upthread a projector in about 3 minutes. At best I can forsee this getting dropped to just over two minutes, but no where close to supposed under a minute that I theoretically should be achieving. Whats the deal?  |  IP: Logged Barry Martin Expert Film Handler Posts: 203 From: Newington, CT USA Registered: Jul 2002 posted 12-12-2004 05:36 AM                        I found I couldn't do it exactly as explained in the Tips section, so I simply loop the film to the projector and back to the takeup, lock the film down on the bottom to keep tension and then thread from top to bottom. I don't have to worry about loop sizes because I measured out my leader and marked where to make them. I can do this in just under 60 seconds when I have to, but usually go a little slower to be safe. Only 2 screens here so no big rush.  |  IP: Logged William Valdes Film Handler Posts: 37 From: San Diego, CA Registered: Sep 2004 posted 12-12-2004 10:08 AM                     quote: Barry Martin I don't have to worry about loop sizes because I measured out my leader and marked where to make them. So let me see if I understand correctly, your two projectors are set up identically with the same distance apart from their platters so you're able to thread with marks on the leader that allow you to set up your loops every time? That's interesting. We could never do that, we have 20 projectors with varying distances between platters and a schedule that ensures most prints get shuffled around a number of times before it leaves the building.  |  IP: Logged Jannette McQueen Film Handler Posts: 50 From: Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada Registered: Sep 2003 posted 12-12-2004 01:28 PM                     Personally, I think everyone has to find their own comfort zone when threading. As long as it's not damaging the film, collecting dust on the film and whatnot, I'm sure you can do things in whatever way works for you. When I started at my current theater, the guy who taught me threading the kinotons we work with, pulled the slack down from the top on a set-up where the platter is on the driving side of the projector. Course, I wasn't exactly thrilled with that idea since that way, there's leader all over the floor. Made me cringe every time I watched him, and other operators he'd trained, thread. So I started threading the same way I was originally taught to thread left-hand platter configuration. But that was from when I was working on Brenkerts, so there was a lot more sprockets to work with, so it took a little bit of time getting my method perfect. Where do your fingers go to make it work, etc. Just takes time and repetition. Anyway, here's how I've been taught to thread left-hand configuration: (I set the intermittant and clean the gate before threading) payout to infeed roller (or I think in "tips" it might have been called "upper-magazine roller") down passed the operating side of the projetor, to outfeed roller, to rewind platter. Then, when I go to thread the projector, I pull slack up from the bottom and run it through our automation detector, lock it in the hold-back sprocket in any old spot (since at my new theater we use a running start cue I can't go by the numbers the way I did on the brenkerts) then, pull the leader down, place the film in frame at the gate, make my upper loop, then lower loop, through the soundhead, and then adjust the position of the film on the holdback sprocket. It's threading-up in a kinda threading-down way? or the other way around or something. Probably the same as Barry Martin. Anyway, I do go faster this way then pulling the slack from the top, but I don't think it's as fast as 50%. As far as the marks on the film. Like I said, I used to go by the numbers just because they were there it's convenient. But Barry just meant for the loop sizes, so the distance from the projetor to the platter wouldn't matter. At my old theater, to line things up the way I wanted them, usually I'd stop it when the #21 got to the first roller after the projector, but sometimes it would line up best if it was just before 21 got there, or later, depending on the distance. Seems to me that no two projectors thread the same way, you just have to get to know them.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 12-12-2004 01:32 PM                     2-3 minutes??? I think my record is 5 seconds, but I commonly take my time and it takes me about 10 seconds to thread a typical projector. I'm guessing you are relatively new to projection. Don't sweat it. By the time you thread a projector 100,000 times you will be faster. It's more important to get the film threaded PROPERLY, than how fast you can do it.  |  IP: Logged Chase Hanson Expert Film Handler Posts: 172 From: San Diego, CA Registered: Oct 2004 posted 12-12-2004 03:33 PM                     I dont think you and I are on the same page as far as "threading the projector" is concerned, Brad. 2-3 minutes to take a print from sitting on one platter to a state where its ready to run. To thread the "projector" ie. establish two properly sized loops and frame the film properly in the film trap takes roughly 5-10 seconds depending on the condition of the leader.  |  IP: Logged Jon Miller Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 973 From: San Diego, CA, USA Registered: Sep 1999 posted 12-12-2004 03:38 PM                     I don't look at the process of threading as if it was some kind of race. Being able to thread fast may be very useful in an emergency, but to do so under normal circumstances is just an invitation to threading-related problems for some people. Whenever there is sufficient time to do so (and there almost always is), I'd rather take my time, confident that the threading will be correct and in-frame, than hastily thread at the last minute and potentially court disaster. Like Brad suggested, do it properly, not fast.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 12-12-2004 04:14 PM                     quote: Chase Hanson I can downthread a projector in just under 2 minutes, after about a weeks practice I can upthread a projector in about 3 minutes. Read what you wrote above, Chase.  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 12-12-2004 07:42 PM                     One 4-screener that I used to work at, me and the other fellows up there would have these "threading races" for fun. I would always beat them (using V5s and LP-270s) in a 50 second run, and that was from the time I pulled the ring, till the trombone was drawn up, and that's even setting the intermittent, correct loop sizes, and what else was needed. That was almost 20yrs ago. Nowdays, who cares about speed, just do it properly and correctly, even though I can still lace up 6 machines within 10 minutes if I have to. Even though the other operators in the circuit I work with at now, chide me of my "slowness", but I just tell them all, .."did you get your framing right? did you get your loop sizes right, if you hit that start button, will the film start without any film damage?" .. most of the time it wasn't so. Then I would lay into them about chiding me of being slow, and also lay into them about their sloppy habits that they were taught with (I have a uphill battle to work with these "kids" in retraining procedures). -thx Monte  |  IP: Logged Barry Martin Expert Film Handler Posts: 203 From: Newington, CT USA Registered: Jul 2002 posted 12-12-2004 10:19 PM                        William, Jannette's thoughts on my post are right on. I only have 2 projectors and both are serviced by a 5-deck platter between them so they are pretty much the same distance. Also both are using Century "H" heads so that part of threading is identical on both. If they weren't I would simply put enough of the first length of leader to get to the projector and back to the platter which have the greatest distance between projector/platter. This way when threading to a projector from a platter that is closer all you need do is pull more leader through when going back to the takeup and before actually threading the head. Jeannette you are also right on my threading up AND down method. Basically my leader is a long line of black with 21 frames of clear then a longer line of black. I thread to the upper magazine and back to the takeup. Go back to the projector and pull the film to get tension on the takeup end so it does not touch the ground, thread the failsafe and lock it down in the final sprocket. I then set the first frame of clear leader in front of the aperature and lock down the intermittent, make my top loop and thread the digital reader on top, make the bottom loop and then re-adjust the position of the film on the last sprocket so that the tension is set for the basement sound reader. If all is done properly the last frame of the clear is directly in front of the basement sound reader and thus the sound is 21 frames ahead of the picture, as John Pytlak once told me was the proper distance (as opposed to the 24 frames I had always been told at Loews). Comfort is the key to proper threading, as already said above. So long as the film doesn't hit the floor (including the leader) and nothing is rubbing something it's not supposed to, whatever gets the job done should be fine in most cases.  |  IP: Logged Carl Martin Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1424 From: Oakland, CA, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 12-13-2004 03:02 AM                        how big was your lower loop when you were threading a 24 frame offset to the sound reader (and what was the projector)? we thread 20 frames on our centurys. even 21 looks excessive. carl  |  IP: Logged Chase Hanson Expert Film Handler Posts: 172 From: San Diego, CA Registered: Oct 2004 posted 12-13-2004 03:41 AM                     Sorry Brad, Im not presently able to discern exactly what it is you are alluding to.  |  IP: Logged Joe Redifer You need a beating today Posts: 12859 From: Denver, Colorado Registered: May 99 posted 12-13-2004 04:08 AM                        Simple. You are talking about threading up a projector, not threading up the entire show (which would include the platter and film cleaners, etc).  |  IP: Logged Barry Martin Expert Film Handler Posts: 203 From: Newington, CT USA Registered: Jul 2002 posted 12-13-2004 11:07 AM                        Carl, Pretty big but not touching anything. They were Strong Simplex heads but I forget exactly which make. This is one of the main reasons I've come to respect these forums so much and have real sympathy for the average projectionist at a corporate chain. When you have such a job and are very young you just assume that a multi-million dollar company knows EVERYTHING about it's business and listen to everything they say. Boy was I green. 21 frames is pretty tight on our Century H heads, there is barely enough room for my finger between the film and the pad roller before locking it down.  |  IP: Logged Dominic Espinosa Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1172 From: Boulder Creek, CA. Registered: Jan 2004 posted 12-13-2004 12:14 PM                     In a pinch I can thread AW3's in around 30 seconds depending on the platter. This however would trash our first trailers if we didn't have long enough leaders, but hey! No film on the floor up from failsafe to penthouse takes me about 35 seconds on a simplex 35 and about 15 on Century SA's with R3 soundheads and an SDDS penthouse. On average it takes a little longer because I don't rush as much and I clean the gate, trap, and intermittent shoe unless it's a rushed thread. Combined with weekly cleaning we have very clean equipment. When I was originally trained I learned to thread down. Dolby Digital and SDDS units seem easier this way to me still but I've since corrected myself. In the middle I started clipping the leader on the holdback sprocket in the soundhead after threading the failsafe up. Then going top down and releasing the slack. It's worked out pretty well for me and that's how a couple other projectionists I know thread. Our previews always look great and our ads (gag) even look good. Hooray for threading up!  |  IP: Logged

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