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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » New prints...quality going downhill? (Page 1)

 
This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2   
Author Topic: New prints...quality going downhill?
Brian Jupp
Film Handler

Posts: 22
From: Victoria, BC, Canada
Registered: Nov 2004

- posted 11-15-2004 02:37 PM      Profile for Brian Jupp   Author's Homepage   Email Brian Jupp   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
We're a first run triplex, so we deal with mostly new prints. The last two prints we opened, I've had to have some reels replaced:

The Incredibles: Reel 1 had vertical scratches 3 or 4 times for about 45 seconds each time (no it wasn't during the "newsreel" scenes). Reel 3 had a faulty DTS Time Code. The DTS Time Code was actually half as wide on this reel as a normal time code.

The Polar Express: Reel 1 had vertical scratches through almost the entire reel, including the attached Racing Stripes trailer.

All these reels were noticed during a run through before opening day, so they were all changed out with replacement reels before the first show.

Has the quality of new prints been going downhill, or would it just be plain bad luck that we received damaged reels in 2 new prints in a row?

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000

- posted 11-15-2004 03:35 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
When a new reel has unacceptable quality, requesting a replacement reel immediately is the correct procedure. The returned reel can be examined to determine the cause, print number and emulsion batches can be tracked to the equipment/personnel responsible, and the cost of replacing the reel is impetus to fix the problem.

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Darryl Spicer
Film God

Posts: 3250
From: Lexington, KY, USA
Registered: Dec 2000

- posted 11-15-2004 06:47 PM      Profile for Darryl Spicer     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
When you put the film together do it if possable on a bench with 60 min reels and check the film with good light. You should be able to see any scratches that may be on the film. Do this to verify that there is not a hidden problem causing the scratches that you may not be aware of.

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David Yauch
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 206
From: Mesa, AZ, USA
Registered: Oct 2004

- posted 11-16-2004 01:46 AM      Profile for David Yauch   Email David Yauch   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Our biggest problem lately has been color bleeding all over the film. We had over a minute of weird blue "smoke" on the screen during a reel of seed of chucky. Not to mention plenty of weird spots showing up on the film throughout 3 of the reels. If the print didn't have enough problems, it decided to break in half and chew up 15 frames during it's first showing, no where near a splice, and I had to run over and fix it because it went unscreened.

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Michael Wilkinson
The Entertainment King of Colusa and Beyond

Posts: 89
From: Colusa, CA USA
Registered: Apr 2004

- posted 11-16-2004 02:11 AM      Profile for Michael Wilkinson   Author's Homepage   Email Michael Wilkinson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Blame Canada!
My print of the Incredibles had, in several places, a wierd pattern of dots which were visible only for one to two frames each time. (I'm not talking about the custom cue marks)
The thing that I see the most is bad color timing. Sometimes from one reel to the next or severe fluctuations mid reel.

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99

- posted 11-16-2004 02:53 AM      Profile for Mike Blakesley   Author's Homepage   Email Mike Blakesley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Our Incredibles print had one reel on which the last couple of seconds had sparkly-white spots. It looked like dust would on a white surface, but in reverse. (Light spots on the dark background.) Since it was only for a couple of seconds I didn't think it was bad enough to replace the reel but obviously there was some dirt in the printer or something.

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000

- posted 11-16-2004 07:19 AM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: David Yauch
Our biggest problem lately has been color bleeding all over the film. We had over a minute of weird blue "smoke" on the screen during a reel of seed of chucky.
Sounds like safelight "fog" where the unprocessed print film was exposed to a safelight that was either too bright, or for too long. What was the magenta edgeprint ID on the film?

quote: Michael Wilkinson
My print of the Incredibles had, in several places, a wierd pattern of dots which were visible only for one to two frames each time. (I'm not talking about the custom cue marks)
Possibly anti-piracy watermark coding?

quote: Mike Blakesley
Our Incredibles print had one reel on which the last couple of seconds had sparkly-white spots.
Likely "Shadow Image" dirt, from dirt particles on the raw stock or printing negative. Being at the end of a reel, I suspect there was some extra handling in making a splice in the printing negative.

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Barry Martin
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 203
From: Newington, CT USA
Registered: Jul 2002

- posted 11-16-2004 12:35 PM      Profile for Barry Martin   Author's Homepage   Email Barry Martin   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Mike Blakesley
Our Incredibles print had one reel on which the last couple of seconds had sparkly-white spots. It looked like dust would on a white surface, but in reverse. (Light spots on the dark background.) Since it was only for a couple of seconds I didn't think it was bad enough to replace the reel but obviously there was some dirt in the printer or something.
We had the exact same thing. Thought it might have been dirt or abrasion I some how got in there but everything checked out fine on my equipment and when looking at the film there is no scratching/dirt, but you can see the specks. Only at the end of the reels though, so where this happened on multiple copies could it be something with the negative/processing?

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Steve Kraus
Film God

Posts: 4094
From: Chicago, IL, USA
Registered: May 2000

- posted 11-16-2004 12:48 PM      Profile for Steve Kraus     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Dust particles on the printing negative (or the raw stock) would block the passage of light and print as white dots.

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Mark J. Marshall
Film God

Posts: 3188
From: New Castle, DE, USA
Registered: Aug 2002

- posted 11-16-2004 01:22 PM      Profile for Mark J. Marshall     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
We had the "negative dirt at the end of the reel" thing on one of our prints too. It was reel 1 or 2 - I forget which.

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Thomas Procyk
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1842
From: Royal Palm Beach, FL, USA
Registered: Feb 2002

- posted 11-16-2004 02:42 PM      Profile for Thomas Procyk   Email Thomas Procyk   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Those of you seeing the "negative sparkle" at the end of REEL 1 of your Incredibles prints (Scene is where the boy is in the principal's office) check the screen about 5 minutes before the end of the reel...

Just before the end of REEL 1 where Mr. Incredible is speaking to the old woman in the insurance office, there is a vertical negative scratch on the right side of the picture. Most visible near the top and bottom of the frame. That might explain the "white dirt" afterwards. Someone at the lab goofed bigtime.

I saw this at 3 different theaters I watched the movie at. (Yes, I'm trying to catch up to Mike Olpin! [Wink] )

Antipiracy is out of control on these prints, too. Almost if they purposely chose the worst moment(s) to put the dots. One is the split-second before Mr. Incredible's plane splashes down (R3?) right on top of light-blue water, almost in sync with the splash. Another is when Syndrome is looking over the waterfall (same reel) in the white mist. [Mad]

=TMP=

P.S. Speaking of antipiracy, the MPAA took out a full page color ad in our college paper threatening all students that, quote, "LAWSUITS BEGIN THIS WEEK" [fu]

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Bill Gabel
Film God

Posts: 3873
From: Technicolor / Postworks NY, USA
Registered: Jan 2002

- posted 11-16-2004 04:09 PM      Profile for Bill Gabel   Email Bill Gabel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
One of the things film depots & studios would do with new film releases. Is to send the best quality prints to the big markets like Los Angeles, New York, San Francisco, Chicago and other major cities. The smaller cities would get the next grade down in prints. And this way of doing business with prints has been around for decades.

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Jesse Skeen
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1517
From: Sacramento, CA
Registered: Aug 2000

- posted 11-16-2004 05:54 PM      Profile for Jesse Skeen   Email Jesse Skeen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Those anti-piracy dots are ENTIRELY unacceptable- the studios ought to be thankful I'm not currently in the theater business right now, as I would be requesting replacement reels for EVERYTHING that had them visible! It's ironic they'd push for a quality presentation on "The Incredibles" and then still mess it up that way. I won't be paying to see any more movies until this whole thing stops once and for all. I can guarantee they've lost more customers through this than they have traced any bootlegs or brought any pirates to justice.

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David Yauch
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 206
From: Mesa, AZ, USA
Registered: Oct 2004

- posted 11-16-2004 06:43 PM      Profile for David Yauch   Email David Yauch   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: John Pytlak
Sounds like safelight "fog" where the unprocessed print film was exposed to a safelight that was either too bright, or for too long. What was the magenta edgeprint ID on the film?

Not sure what magenta edgeprint ID you're talking about, I'm new to this so you'll have to help me out there.

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Barry Martin
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 203
From: Newington, CT USA
Registered: Jul 2002

- posted 11-16-2004 09:32 PM      Profile for Barry Martin   Author's Homepage   Email Barry Martin   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
In the outer edge of the film where the SDDS soundtrack is printed (blue tint) there should be a code number in magenta (pinkish) color. These codes are printed on the raw stock and can be used to track the reel and who handled it.

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