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Topic: Word of advise, please - FP30

Per Hauberg
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 883
From: Malling, Denmark
Registered: Jul 2000

posted 09-04-2004 08:00 AM

Could anybody give me a hint, please:
Kinoton FP30 - one year old - until now with the the most perfect, steady picture, but now unstable both vertical and horizontal.
Have changed pressure bands, and adjusted skate in height. ("Adjust until height is perfect", says the book - but just when is it perfect ?). I'm afraid, I did not pay enough attention when projector was brand new - did this skate sit all firm, or should it be possible to "wrinkle" it a bit on the holder pin ?
No sign for me on skate or intermittent sprocket being worn - Should the skate be due for replacement allready after one year - 3 shows a day? - And likewise, -have I been out too early, first turning around, and now replacing the pressure bands ? This was my first act, when picture became less steady - but no result. Some months ago, I had an accident with film packing in platters center unit, causing several guide rollers to be torn out from wall and ceiling, -even pulling the holder for dts reader wry, -but could something like this go on and damage all the way down there at intermittent and filmgate ? -Damages like this will not happen any more. -I've now got a tracktion equalizer and -switch to prevent such.
After thirty+ years with DP70, i'm not used to delicate or fragile hardware, nor to changing worn parts every year...
I just can't see, wtf is wrong, just know that my picture, from which I've been very impressed since day one with the FP30, is now the object of complaints from custumers - which I am definitely not used to.
Any advise, please ?
[Confused]

Per

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

posted 09-04-2004 11:07 AM

You want about 2 film thicknesses of clearance between the bottom of the intermittent sprocket and the skate.

Out of curiosity, there are indented half circles on the skate that give clearance for the lateral guide rollers. My bet is that a screw responsible for holding the skate alignment (there are 3 possibilities) worked it's way loose and your skate has been slowly pushing up higher and higher into the intermittent sprocket. Those 4 indentions should be pretty well centered to the lateral guide rollers. Are they, or is the skate sitting noticeably higher?

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Peter Hall
Master Film Handler

Posts: 314
From: London, UK
Registered: Dec 2000

posted 09-04-2004 01:11 PM

Is the movement more prominent at one end of the racking adjustment than the other ? Framing bush is likely..

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Tony Bandiera Jr
Film God

Posts: 3067
From: Moreland Idaho
Registered: Apr 2004

posted 09-04-2004 02:35 PM

Per:

Did you replace the skate as well as the bands or just the bands? It is possible that the new bands and old skate are not seating together properly as they wear at different rates.

It would seem that 3 shows/day in one year would not wear those parts out, especially if you keep them clean and are using Film-Guard.

Brad is correct with the two thickness of film setting. If your machines have a skate tension adjustor (small knob below the framing knob) be sure to set it to mid point before adjusting the skate height. My FP-38's have a scale and indicator below the optical sound reader, your machines do also IIRC. You can also use that adjustor while the film is running to help get the steadiest picture.

Another possibility is a warped skate.

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Michael Schaffer
"Where is the
Boardwalk Hotel?"

Posts: 4143
From: Boston, MA
Registered: Apr 2002

posted 09-04-2004 04:45 PM

In addition to the above tips, you should also check if the intermittent sprocket travels laterally. If so, here is how you adjust it: Turn the framing knob all the way counterclockwise (when looking in the direction of the screen, or away from you when you stand on the operating side). Then loosen the small allen screw which is on the outside of the intermittent collar. Insert a flat screwdriver into the locking screw and loosen it. Rattle the framing knob and observe how this moves the intermittent sprocket laterally. You can also feel the movement through the screwdriver. Then tighten the screw (clockwise of course) until it is just "handtight" and the sprocket doesn't move laterally, finally turn it back counterclockwise just a little bit ("5 minutes"). This adjustment needs a little feeling and practice. If the adjustment screw is too tight, the sprocket will make a soft but noticeable screeching sound.
At the end, you need to tighten the allen screw in the collar again.

quote: Per Hauberg
After thirty+ years with DP70, i'm not used to delicate or fragile hardware, nor to changing worn parts every year...

The machine isn't really fragile, but polyester accidents can damage it. The idea behind the skate and bands and why you change them once in a while is that they are inexpensive parts which take the wear rather than the film. With the recent generation of bands and skates, you should see almost no shedding in the gate after the show.

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Per Hauberg
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 883
From: Malling, Denmark
Registered: Jul 2000

posted 09-04-2004 05:32 PM

Thanks, All - Will try tomorrow morning as much of this as I dare....

quote: Michael Schaffer
With the recent generation of bands and skates, you should see almost no shedding in the gate after the show.

During the same period as the rock n' roll picture, I do see much shedding, compared with earlier - even with pressure bands at lowest possible pressure.

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Per Hauberg
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 883
From: Malling, Denmark
Registered: Jul 2000

posted 09-05-2004 06:19 PM

Brad:

quote: Brad Miller
Those 4 indentions should be pretty well centered to the lateral guide rollers. Are they, or is the skate sitting noticeably higher?

Brad, -The skate was sitting much too high, with the screws touching the bottom of the indentions. After giving space for the two layers of film, it's still not near center of indention.
That must be sign of a worn skate, even if it seems too early for that. -Still, it didn't make the picture steady, so next step must be to order a new skate in the morning.

Tony, -No, I did not replace the skate together with the pressure bands - will do that in next try.

Michael, -what needs practice, I'll leave for Herr Müller of Kinoton, whom i'll have to invite, if the replacement skate doesn't do the trick. I still consider myself as one of those manager-in-booth creeps, allthough i've been here a while. One's gotta respect his own limits !

thanks, gents - for the nice tips

Per

---------------------------------------
p.s.:
Neighbour city Aarhus ran their first [dlp]

this weekend with Shrek2, manager telling the newspaper, that audiences will enjoy the deeper colors and the sharper picture.
As the original Victoria 5 stand very far from centre, causing the THX-logo to look like a trapeze, he may very well be right [Big Grin]

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

posted 09-05-2004 06:28 PM

quote: Per Hauberg
The skate was sitting much too high, with the screws touching the bottom of the indentions. After giving space for the two layers of film, it's still not near center of indention.
That must be sign of a worn skate, even if it seems too early for that.

Yup, the skate is shot and it takes very little time for that to happen once the screws come loose. Check out this thread for an explanation of mine of what clearly happened to you. Replacement skates are inexpensive, so go ahead and order two so you will have a spare.

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Per Hauberg
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 883
From: Malling, Denmark
Registered: Jul 2000

posted 09-06-2004 03:58 PM

quote:
I still consider myself as one of those manager-in-booth creeps, allthough i've been here a while. One's gotta respect his own limits !

Today, I consider myself an even bigger one of those creeps, mentioned earlier, and I blush while admitting: After adjusting the skate for the two layers of film to pass through (as on all other projectors), framing knob and pressure knob in middle position, the picture is as steady as it was a month (or a year, for that matter) ago... It seems, I've made it a habit, always to run with the skate pressure in absolute minimum position, and as the jumping picture not jumped the same way it does, if the DP70 has too little pressure, AND as the jump was not reduced by the first many turns on the knob, I really did not believe, this was the reason.
Another in-booth-manager goes the heavy way to the blackboard to write 200 times:
Thou shall learn as long as Thou live !

Thanks again for Your concern. When the monkey in skipper's chair is well trained, the FP30, combined with the ST200E platter, does a great job. Hat off, beer down -training will go on !

[beer]

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Demetris Thoupis
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1240
From: Aradippou, Larnaca, Cyprus
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 10-04-2004 04:33 AM

Are you using the FP30E projector?
If so you should try checking the board which controls the intermittent motor. If it is not synchronised or if the mottor is damaged then you see funny flickering e.t.c on the screen.
D

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