my profile | my password | search | faq & rules | forum home

» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Drive In / Outdoor Screen Material (Page 1)

This topic comprises 3 pages: 1  2  3

Author Topic: Drive In / Outdoor Screen Material Joshua Lott Expert Film Handler Posts: 246 From: Fairbanks, AK, USA Registered: Nov 1999 posted 08-18-2004 08:18 PM                        What types of material are best for screens for outdoor showings? The screens would have to stand up to some EXTREME conditions. Are there any screens that stand up to -20 F ? Rain/Snow ect... Someone told me that he has seen drive ins with a metal or wood screen that was just painted white. Is this common place? Keep in mind that I have never been to a drive in. Thanks.  |  IP: Logged David Kilderry Master Film Handler Posts: 355 From: Melbourne Australia Registered: Sep 1999 posted 08-18-2004 08:51 PM                        The only real option is steel. Flat zinc alum panels around 1mm thick are best for the surface, painted an all-weather flat white. If you introduce any gain into the paint eg silver or amuminium, due, rain or moisture will cause a mirror effect. Two good coats using a roller is best, spray goes on too thinly. The structure should be designed to withstand winds of around 100mph before the panels blow off, hopefully leaving the perlons and tower in place. This type of screen has been proven best for decades both in North America and Australia. There were drive-ins in Alaska, why not track down the owners or former projectionists and ask them about any special features given the conditions. All screens need repainting every few years. Wood was once used for both the tower and marine ply for the surface, but these options have long since been surpassed in recent years. We've built 3 80ft plus screens in the last 2 years, so I speak from experience! David Kilderry  |  IP: Logged Jack Ondracek Film God Posts: 2348 From: Port Orchard, WA, USA Registered: Oct 2002 posted 08-18-2004 09:55 PM                        You'll still find a lot of wooden screens in parts of the US. There's one about an hour from me that is built from plywood sheeting over a wooden frame. It's been there for 50 years, though it doesn't face very extreme weather. There's one in Florida that's made of concrete block (it's still standing, by the way). As David says, a steel screen is probably the best way to go... unless you're trying to do it yourself. However, on the subject of reflections caused by moisture, my experience is that a flat surface that attracts moisture can be reflective, regardless of paint. One of my screens faces the prevailing winds, and is a real problem in that regard. The screen's angle to the viewing audience is also a major factor. Jerry Selby (of the screen company) has said that the "wavey" type of corrugated roofing metal works well for screen surfaces that face this problem, because only a small part of the surface is directly in line with the audience at any given point. If rain does hit the screen, those parts of the corrugations that are not in direct line with the viewer will act as a diffuser of sorts, minimizing any reflective effect. This material also works well in wide viewing angle situations. In practice, I also have such a screen. My original 1949 screen has been refaced with 2X24' strips of corrugated steel. You can't see the waves unless you're within 20 feet of the screen and the picture is bright and uncluttered. I use the same paint on that screen that I use on my "problem" one, yet the corrugated surface never exhibits any reflection issues. So... there are several ways to skin the cat. Local conditions and how long you expect to be in the business are probably the major considerations when selecting materials. [ 08-19-2004, 03:32 AM: Message edited by: Jack Ondracek ]  |  IP: Logged Daryl C. W. O'Shea Film God Posts: 3977 From: Midland Ontario Canada (where Panavision & IMAX lenses come from) Registered: Jun 2002 posted 08-19-2004 01:24 AM                        Ditto on the corrugated steel. We've got it on four screens and it works good. It'll laugh at -20F too.  |  IP: Logged David Kilderry Master Film Handler Posts: 355 From: Melbourne Australia Registered: Sep 1999 posted 08-19-2004 03:14 AM                        At the company I used to work for, we did tests with corrugated screens. At Coburg Triple drive-in one is corrugated and two are flat sheet, the corrugated screen has more reflection trouble with moisture and less light! There are many variations of the type of corrugated sheet you can use, I'd always suggest small scale tests with a 16mm machine first. Spray it with water and see what happens. The corrugatuions do deflect light at different angles and in ideal conditions you want it all right back at the audience. I agree that there are many considerations depending on location to be considered. We still have have nearly 50 year old wooden screens still standing too and one made of steel and cement panels! David Kilderry  |  IP: Logged Jack Ondracek Film God Posts: 2348 From: Port Orchard, WA, USA Registered: Oct 2002 posted 08-19-2004 03:37 AM                        It would be interesting to study the differences between our screens, David, though I suspect the distance between us could be a problem After we close for the Winter, I'm planning to test the corrugated steel on my "problem screen", as I have most of the scraps that were left over when the original crew sheared the steel for my main screen. I'm going to prime & paint a piece of it, attach it to the screen and wait for the next good rain. If it performs like others say it should, I'll resurface both of my smaller screens with it. If not, I'll be looking for other causes!  |  IP: Logged Daryl C. W. O'Shea Film God Posts: 3977 From: Midland Ontario Canada (where Panavision & IMAX lenses come from) Registered: Jun 2002 posted 08-19-2004 03:54 AM                        Given the long throws involved, light reflected back from a flat screen is reflected "straight back" at a fairly narrow angle. With a corrugated screen light is reflect back all over the place and will reflect less light straight back and will read lower on any meter aimed perpendicular to the screen. From what I've seen (by eye) flat screens look brighter straight on, but darker when viewing from the ends of rows (45 degrees off perpendicular). Corrugated screens, however, look darker than a flat screen when viewed straight on, but the look brighter than a flat screen at the end of the rows -- which makes sense (to me anyway) give the corrugated surface. I've been meaning to actually measure this for years... to see if the sides really are that much better. You'd never want a corrugated surface in an indoor where your audience is all sitting pretty much perpendicular to the screen, but at a drive-in where a third or more of the audience is outside the viewing angle you'd have in an indoor, it'd be worth knowing how much more even the corrugate surface may perform. Then again I could be off my rocker again. Come to think of it, I usually get fogged out by the time I start becoming concerned about the water building up on the screen! The fun nights are doing changeovers when you can't see the screen but the audience still can.  |  IP: Logged Jack Ondracek Film God Posts: 2348 From: Port Orchard, WA, USA Registered: Oct 2002 posted 08-19-2004 02:05 PM                        You're right on about the corrugations making side viewing better. However, it doesn't really make direct viewing less than the sides... only redirects that light. In the end, the direct view looks as good as the side, though the direct is lower because there's no more reflection straight back than any other direction. My flat screens are very definitely brighter straight on than off to the sides... though it's a lot like digital vs analog... many people don't pay attention, so they don't notice. I've got blowtorches for lamps anyway, so it's not that big a deal... the rain is a much bigger problem.  |  IP: Logged Daryl C. W. O'Shea Film God Posts: 3977 From: Midland Ontario Canada (where Panavision & IMAX lenses come from) Registered: Jun 2002 posted 08-19-2004 05:51 PM                        That's what I meant to mean. Was a little tired and wordy... direct on looks as good, if not a little better, than the sides, but not as bright as a flat screen direct on. Corrugated provides a more even picture brightness across the field.  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 08-21-2004 03:05 PM                     There is a screen at a Drive In near Powell Woming that has a reflective type of powder coated surface. This screen is nearing 30 yeaers old and still looks like brand new. It originally did cost a furtune to install but the owner says it was worth it as he's never re-coated it at all. Mark @ CLACO  |  IP: Logged Jack Ondracek Film God Posts: 2348 From: Port Orchard, WA, USA Registered: Oct 2002 posted 08-21-2004 10:30 PM                        I have something like that on my corrugated screen, Mark... though I wouldn't know if it was a powder coat (probably not) or some baked-on surface. I could probably get away with just pressure washing it every couple of years. However, my screen paint is noticeably whiter (probably due to the screen's age). If nothing else, what's under the paint on that screen makes a very good base.  |  IP: Logged Joshua Lott Expert Film Handler Posts: 246 From: Fairbanks, AK, USA Registered: Nov 1999 posted 08-22-2004 01:50 AM                        Are there any drive in's that also have a grassy area up front to sit down and "picnic"? If so what would you do for the sound? If you have a metal screen (that I assume is solid) then where would you place the speakers? If you wanted to place the speakers behind the screen, could you cut out and replace that section only with a perforated metal painted white? How would that affect the image? would there be a noticeable difference between the perforated and non-perforated sections?  |  IP: Logged Stephen Furley Film God Posts: 3059 From: Coulsdon, Croydon, England Registered: May 2002 posted 08-22-2004 03:18 AM                     I've never seen I drive in, I don't think we ever had a permanent one here, but I do have a Super-8 print of an old Pathe Pictorial about one in Rome. There was a mention of being able to sit outsde, I think it was at tables rather than on the ground, to watch the film, but "you can only hear it from the comfort of your car" Not much point in that then, is there. When I first bought the film, at a collectors' fair, I actually had to watch it without sound, as it has an optical track, and I only had a magnetic projector at the time. Sound, mono of course, was from small speakers hung on columns by each car, that you unhooked, and brought into the car, along wth a heater, if required. What possible advantage any of this could have over a normal cinema, I cannot imagine. The narrator was very enthusiastic about it all, and predicted that, hopefully, one will be openiing near you very soon. Well, something over forty years later, there still hasn't been one anywhere near me. We have had outdoor film shows here from time to time, Crystal Palace Park in South London is one place I can think of, but these are rare events, and are sit down on the grass, or deck chairs, not for cars. I've never been to one of these, but I did once see one being set up. The screen had not been errected, so I don't know what type it was, there was a large pile of speakers at each side, but no sign of anything in the centre. I think the projectiion was from inside a truck. The Pathe Pictorial is quite an interesting little film. I've no idea who holds the rights to it now, I wonder if it would be possible to reproduce it for a reasonable fee.  |  IP: Logged Jack Ondracek Film God Posts: 2348 From: Port Orchard, WA, USA Registered: Oct 2002 posted 08-22-2004 03:55 AM                        Josh: Many early drive-ins were built with playgrounds in front of the screen. It gave the kids something to do while waiting for the show to start. As drive-ins pretty much all had a fair amount of unused land in front of their screens, playgrounds were common. In many of the drive-ins left today, that area is a popular picnic spot. Insurance requirements and the fear of general liability has resulted in a lot of that equipment being removed in the drive-ins that remain in this country. Drive-ins never had speakers behind their screens... as far as I know. The very first ones did have speakers under them however, making the theatres very poor neighbors. Some drive-ins installed speakers under the ramps... which didn't work all that well, either. Until the mid '80's, sound was transmitted to cars by way of speakers mounted on poles next to the cars. Eventually, AM radio... then FM stereo became commonly available to drive-ins, which was a good thing, because most people had better sound systems in their cars than they had in their homes. This comes back to your question about sound in front of the screen for pic-nickers. As many drive-ins now have radio sound, all they need is their own car or portable radio. Stephen: It's not surprising you haven't run into a drive-in. They're mainly an American phenomenon, and something of a curiosity in other countries. After WWII, America literally fell in love with their cars. We had a new interstate freeway system in place... or in construction, and people started going everywhere in their cars... including an eventual move away from travel by train. Many businesses catered to this popularity, including drive-up restaurants... and drive-in theatres. Some sources say we had well 6,000 of them at one time.  |  IP: Logged John Hegel Expert Film Handler Posts: 166 From: Lake Mills, Iowa Registered: Sep 2000 posted 08-22-2004 03:56 AM                        The advantage of a drive in is the atmosphere. During the summer I would much rather be outdoors enjoying the weather with my friends then being stuck in some boring box. Where else can you see a movie on the big screen and also be cooking burgers on the grill? I'm not sure how common it is to allow tail-gating, but they used to do it here, before is closed.  |  IP: Logged

All times are Central (GMT -6:00)

This topic comprises 3 pages: 1  2  3

Printer-friendly view of this topic

Hop To: Select a Forum: Category: Operations -------------------- Digital Cinema Forum Film Handlers' Forum Large Format Forum Ground Level Feature Info, Trailer Attachments & REAL Credit Offsets Category: Community -------------------- Film-Yak Film Handlers' Movie Reviews The Afterlife Bob Maar's Joke-A-Thon Category: Classified -------------------- Equipment and Supplies Wanted/For Sale Help Wanted/Seeking Employment Category: System -------------------- Software Beta Testing Forum

The Film-Tech Forums are designed for various members related to the cinema industry to express their opinions, viewpoints and testimonials on various products, services and events based upon speculation, personal knowledge and factual information through use, therefore all views represented here allow no liability upon the publishers of this web site and the owners of said views assume no liability for any ill will resulting from these postings. The posts made here are for educational as well as entertainment purposes and as such anyone viewing this portion of the website must accept these views as statements of the author of that opinion and agrees to release the authors from any and all liability.