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» Film-Tech Forum   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Alien Versus Predator Reel 5 flash?

   
Author Topic: Alien Versus Predator Reel 5 flash?
Jack Ondracek
Film God

Posts: 2269
From: Port Orchard, WA, USA
Registered: Oct 2002


 - posted 08-12-2004 09:24 PM      Profile for Jack Ondracek   Author's Homepage   Email Jack Ondracek   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
On our print of AVP, Reel 5 starts with what looks like 1 darker frame prior to 4 frames of a flash. It looks like cutting that frame might interfere with the content, so we left it in and didn't use it as an ID frame.

Since it doesn't match up exactly with the scan in the ID forum, I'm wondering if anyone else here got something like this, and if you'd handle it differently.

Jack

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17617
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 08-12-2004 11:04 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Just an FYI

The Reel ID pictures are typically missing *the* first and last frame due to the way the scanner behaves. Sometimes it scans, sometimes it doesn't. Still, having *the* id frame isn't near as important as having the next several frames.

That was a pretty stupid place to put a reel change. One frame of dark, 4 frames of light, then another shot entirely!

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Dustin Mitchell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1865
From: Mondovi, WI, USA
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 08-12-2004 11:09 PM      Profile for Dustin Mitchell   Email Dustin Mitchell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I left the frame on also.

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Adam Martin
I'm not even gonna point out the irony.

Posts: 3638
From: Dallas, TX
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 08-13-2004 12:58 AM      Profile for Adam Martin   Author's Homepage   Email Adam Martin       Edit/Delete Post 
It would be useful for people of the future to know what movie you're talking about. Please edit your subject line with the full name of the movie.

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John T. Hendrickson, Jr
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 889
From: Freehold, NJ, USA
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 08-13-2004 08:17 AM      Profile for John T. Hendrickson, Jr   Email John T. Hendrickson, Jr   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Our audiences will be treated to the "flash" frame. I wondered about this anomoly when I built the prints. I leave one reference frame, so I had to include a note for my breakdown guys that there is no reference frame for the H-5.

I'll probably enclose a note to this effect when the prints ship out as a courtesy to others.

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Frank Angel
Film God

Posts: 5130
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 08-13-2004 09:49 AM      Profile for Frank Angel   Author's Homepage   Email Frank Angel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
As Brad pointed out in a similar thread before and very rightfully so, if a reel has a reference frame on EITHER the tail or the head, it's got all it actually needs for anyone with a third grade education to identify the reel; there's no reason why you must have two, except for convenience. In a perfect world where "projection attendants" knew their craft and weren't lazy bastards without third grade educations, you wouldn't need ANY reference frames because the right leader would always be connected to the right reel and DTS discs would always be returned. But we know the chance of THAT happening, don't we, given the level of skill the profession has sunk to.

Funny, how you never hear a kid say, "Gee, I want to be a projectionist when I grow up." I bet County Undertaker gets more interest. So given what eventually does filter "up" to the booth, is it any wonder anything at all gets on the screen in ANY order.

Yah, this is what I am like before coffee and it aint pretty.

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Jack Ondracek
Film God

Posts: 2269
From: Port Orchard, WA, USA
Registered: Oct 2002


 - posted 08-13-2004 12:30 PM      Profile for Jack Ondracek   Author's Homepage   Email Jack Ondracek   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks for the info, Frank. As you can imagine, I'm feeling rather full of myself now, having actually made to junior high! [Razz] [Big Grin] [beer]

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Wolff King Morrow
Master Film Handler

Posts: 490
From: Denton, TX, USA
Registered: Feb 2004


 - posted 08-13-2004 12:35 PM      Profile for Wolff King Morrow   Author's Homepage   Email Wolff King Morrow   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
To double check my build, I took a leader from another reel and used it to measure where to cut. The darker frame is the first frame of action.

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Dustin Mitchell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1865
From: Mondovi, WI, USA
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 08-13-2004 01:26 PM      Profile for Dustin Mitchell   Email Dustin Mitchell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I agree Frank, my standard practice is to usually leave one ID frame on the head leader and no ID frame on the tail leader. I made an exception in this case because of the unique situation.

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Robert L. Fischer
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 145
From: Montreal, Quebec
Registered: May 2004


 - posted 08-13-2004 04:11 PM      Profile for Robert L. Fischer     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Maybe I'm missing something here, but what is the point to making an ID frame? The reel number is printed on the head and tail leaders and it's just as easy to make a splice in frame without an ID frame in my opinion. I don't see where breaking down would be any easier either. I've noticed some recent prints (Collateral and/or Bourne Supremacy come to mind) that practically have ID frames already (with the arrows). I haven't paid enough attention to remember what lab these are coming from, but I'm sure someone on the board can confirm that.

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12203
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 08-13-2004 04:50 PM      Profile for Mike Blakesley   Author's Homepage   Email Mike Blakesley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Robert - The ID frames have nothing to do with splicing. The purpose is so the next theatre to screen that print can identify which leaders go with which reels, in order to ensure the print is built in the correct order.

ONE ID frame is enough.

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Robert L. Fischer
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 145
From: Montreal, Quebec
Registered: May 2004


 - posted 08-13-2004 07:35 PM      Profile for Robert L. Fischer     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Ah, I understand now.

Some of the most obvious, common-sense reasoning seems to often elude me...

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 15991
From: Bountiful, Utah
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 08-14-2004 09:52 AM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
This film re-opened to a full house in a theatre we just finished remodeling. The print was full of lab flaws, including flashes and a number of scratched areas in which the scratch was not on the release material but was printed onto it in the lab. pretty lame film anyway and full of unknowns but awful lab work.

Mark @ CLACO

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Frank Angel
Film God

Posts: 5130
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 08-14-2004 01:56 PM      Profile for Frank Angel   Author's Homepage   Email Frank Angel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Eegads, Mark, don't tell me they are hiring those same guys in the LABS now, are they?

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