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» Film-Tech Forum   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Newsflash - Dolby EX and DTS-ES are the same thing! (Page 1)

 
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Author Topic: Newsflash - Dolby EX and DTS-ES are the same thing!
Brad Miller
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From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
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 - posted 07-30-2004 04:15 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Really!!! No joke. They are the same thing. WOW! [Big Grin]

(This thread posted for the benefit of people who still think that ES is something different than EX. Guys, if a movie is listed as EX, then it *is* "ES" as well. It's just the dorky name that DTS gives EX tracks.)

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Manny Knowles
"What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???"

Posts: 4244
From: Bloomington, IN, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 07-30-2004 06:44 PM      Profile for Manny Knowles   Email Manny Knowles   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I suppose you can lock this thread now? [Big Grin]

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Brad Miller
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From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 07-30-2004 06:47 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
No, I'm waiting for someone to adamantly come on and tell me how ES encoding is somehow different.

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Darryl Spicer
Film God

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From: Lexington, KY, USA
Registered: Dec 2000


 - posted 07-30-2004 06:49 PM      Profile for Darryl Spicer     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It's on a CD not on the film [Big Grin]

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Frank Angel
Film God

Posts: 5130
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 07-30-2004 07:03 PM      Profile for Frank Angel   Author's Homepage   Email Frank Angel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Or you could say that EX is just the dorky name Dolby gives to DTS's Extended Surround tracks.

Besides, was this ever disputed?

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Brad Miller
Administrator

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From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 07-30-2004 07:09 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Not trying to pick on any one person here, but I see this all the time. link

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 11892
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 07-30-2004 08:36 PM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If you use Panastereo's you get Surround-SX. So am I to believe that is the same thing? Where will all of this end?

Will Surround-EX work with cyan film? Does Surround-ES care if the film is cyan (or faded red for that matter)?

What about "Circle Surround"?

Since the DTS XD-10 could do a discrete BS channel(s)...I guess we might see Discrete Surround-ES

Since they are the back surroud channels...why was there no truth in advertising...just call em Surround-BS

Some clown will probably "discover" a four channel surround system and call their decoder "Super-Surround-EX" or some such nonsense.

Steve

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

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From: Bountiful, Utah
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 07-31-2004 06:40 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
"Surround BS"

Bwahahahahahahah......
Now you've hit the nail on the head!

Mark

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Mark J. Marshall
Film God

Posts: 3179
From: New Castle, DE, USA
Registered: Aug 2002


 - posted 07-31-2004 07:31 PM      Profile for Mark J. Marshall     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Steve, We're talking about sound formats used on the print. Just because Panastereo wants to decode the EX/ES matrix and call it something else, that's great. That doesn't change the format used on the print.

Brad, I agree that EX and ES are from a technological standpoint identical, however they are competing formats, and they're licensed separately. And since someone like Spielberg, who has a hard on for DTS, COULD in theory license ES on the DTS track, and then mix the track down to 5.1 for the SRD crowd and screw them out of EX, I see no problem in stating both.

If you want a sound format misunderstanding and redundancy issue to champion, how about joining me and condemning the folks who constantly type "SR/SRD." That is a CLEAR redundancy since it basically means "there is an SR track, and a Digital track with an SR backup track." But unfortunately too many people just accept that now, and I'm sure I'll get criticized for not knowing what I'm talking about. Fire away, folks... I'll just ignore you.

I fear the day when AMCs way of notating the sound tracks becomes mainstream. In an email from the corporate office, they tell us all every week that movies are "A/SR/SRD..." [Confused]

But the bottom line is, I know they are the same, and yet they are different, and one does not necessarily imply the other, although usually they do at the moment. It is your site, though. So if you don't want me to correct DTS into DTS-ES when someone else has already corrected SRD into SRD-EX, then I won't do it. Your FITA forum won't be as complete and accurate as it probably should be, in my opinion, but again, it's your site, and your call.

Cheers,

Mark

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Brad Miller
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From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
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 - posted 07-31-2004 07:43 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
I said I was not picking on any one inparticular. You just happened to be the lastest example. And yes EX and EX is the same damn thing and NO there has not been a difference ever, nor should there ever be. What about people with SRD but coupled with an ES decoder, or the reverse? It's stupid and yes I do wish people would stop stating the blindly obvious. However noting EX is different than simply posting SRD.

I do agree with you on the whole SR/SRD thing. That is moronic.

Equally useless info is when someone makes a post after opening weekend on first run letting everyone know what trailers came in their cans or attached to the print. [Roll Eyes]

We have considered making it so that after the movie has opened the thread gets locked, but occasionally that forum becomes useful in repertory times for posting noted good or bad prints via print number.

I'm surprised no one has noted "in color" yet.

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
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 - posted 07-31-2004 07:56 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
But ES is indeed different! It uses a discreet (discrete?) rear surround! So their EX is discrete. It is easiest just to called it EXcrete.


Oh wait. That's DVD. This is a film forum. Silly me.

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

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From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 07-31-2004 08:01 PM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Dolby•EX and DTS-ES have different logos. Well, at least DTS finally developed a logo a year or so after launching its competing format (after getting some suggestions to do so from some particular people).

But the logos mean nothing! At least they don't mean anything to the folks making the newspaper stack ads. In browsing through the latest Gemini and Wagner Zip Change catalogs, there aren't any Dolby•EX or DTS-ES logos in there that one can put on a marquee. Of course, you could call some anal-rententive graphics guy like me who could make you some for a phat phiggidy price. Brad has the only 70mm sign I've been able to make though.

With the effort in advertising these formats being absolute crap, there's little reason for commercial theaters to invest in the next big thing. Dolby•EX and DTS-ES have been failures in this regard in both the theatrical and home venues. No ad blitz to support it. Most home theater systems are still sold with 5.1 speaker packages in spite of most new receivers supporting the 6.1 formats.

For the DTS XD-10 to get anywhere two things need to happen. First, someone like Universal Pictures needs to have a real, 10 channel discrete movie. And they need to promote the shit out of that fact, just like they promoted DTS with its launch for "Jurassic Park". You need new logos, new posters, and jeez-louise -a new freaking trailer!

For now, the vast majority of people just treat all this stuff like it is the same old generic digital 5.1 thing. They don't understand it and there aren't any titles really showing off the advantages of the new stuff.

[ 07-31-2004, 11:40 PM: Message edited by: Bobby Henderson ]

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Mark J. Marshall
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From: New Castle, DE, USA
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 - posted 07-31-2004 08:34 PM      Profile for Mark J. Marshall     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Oh, I know you weren't picking on me, and I don't take that stuff personally anyway. It didn't look like anyone else wanted to speak up though, so I figured I'd take a stab at it. [Smile]

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Steve Kraus
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From: Chicago, IL, USA
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 - posted 07-31-2004 09:30 PM      Profile for Steve Kraus     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Why does it have to be licensed from DTS at all (except maybe use of the name)? Let's say you're mixing using Dolby's EX matrix equipment. You end up with a 6-track digital master. If you hand it over to DTS to encode and make disks are they going to care if the two surround channels represent matrixed info?

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Mark Gulbrandsen
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From: Bountiful, Utah
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 - posted 07-31-2004 09:56 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I think using the term "Brand X Surround Decoding" should cover just about all of them....

Mark

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